I bought tickets for the Tower Theatre Philadelphia show, the SECOND they went on sale and I got seats which were under the balcony. My sister and I contacted a ticket agency in the afternoon of the Saturday show to get 4th row right center for another $80 - I could not have sold my other seats if the tickets were coated in gold. Who the hell wants to be back there? And what's worse, I had flu so bad on Saturday, I didn't even go to the show. Then again, I did see Friday, so it wasn't a big deal.

But yeah, Morrissey has been ripping me off for years as far as concert tickets. I don't know why his shows sell tickets that way. But I blame him entirely - his name is on the bill. It's up to him to make sure things work out well for the fans who come to see him. Don't skirt the issue with your wording to Sanctuary.

EA

row CC is WORSE than row Q. what happens is that they go from "Z" to "AA" and so forth. it's a common misconception, and i wonder how many people will be running up to the pit only to find out that they are actually 26 rows back from that.

that in itself is not sanctuary's fault because it's been like that since the dawn of time.

however, since i rarely buy anything that has a seating arrangement anymore, i recently took part in a pre-sale and didn't know any of this stuff. sure, i figured out that they had a small number of tickets that they sold, but it was only then that i realized that they had a cross section of everything from good to crappy and sold them at the same time.

in a way, i can see why they do it. they want to keep their other ticket brokers happy by giving them all good seats as well. not only that, it goes without saying that someone who rushes to buy one at the very beginning may, in all likelihood, go ahead and buy the ticket even if it is crappy because they are afraid that they'll be left without one. the people who show up about 2 weeks later looking for a seat need to be convinced to buy something.

i wish i had known all of this so i could have been an informed shopper. but i also went back and saw how they were selling to the regular public and even though better tickets were available, i realized that they were selling slowly enough that i shouldn't even bother trying to find some shmuck to buy my other tickets.

not that it matters anymore how it turned out, but i learned my lesson.

I am a serious concert-goer, who's noticed this deceitful pattern of ticket sales over the recent years with every show I've gone to see at a major venue. I have learned NOT to jump on the PRE-shitty-seat SALE wagon but rather to wait patently until the day of the event (where I am always guaranteed to be front and center!!)

Its funny though - this is never the case w/smaller/clubs and venues. So who's to blame?

Now that I know how the system works...
I must admit that I really don't miss the days of having to spend the night on music store sidewalks in hopes of getting a halfway decent seat.

When tickets go on sale, this is the way they are allocated. First, the performer gets a number of friends/family seats. Second, the promoter gets seats up front. Third, any radio stations or media outlets get tickets (icl Clear Channel). On top of that ticket brokers have inside lines that get them better seats. Ticketmaster sells tickets back to front for all events. I have no idea why they do this. If you want good seats, your best bet is to get them in singles. they don't follow the allocation. In case your wondering why I know this it is cause I knew someone who worked at the academy of music in philly. I don't work for Moz, Ticketmaster, Clear Channel, or any media outlet. Tickets have nothing to do with Moz unless he has alot of personal tickets. I got 4th and 6th row single seats no problem for both Philly shows.

I have to agree with most of what you say. When I bought tix for one of the Apollo, NY shows earlier this year, I was one of the first to buy the presale tix (in fact, I purchased the tix an hour before they went on pre-sale) and I got lousy seats. Later I had to call them and cancel that date and request Sat. The lady called me back and told me that the "promoters" felt the reason why I was requesting a change was legitimate and decided to give me second row centre for Sat. I was blown away! But I couldn't understand how those seats were available for Sat. since the show was already "sold out" by that time. For once in my life something came in my favour, but still it was odd. This time I was again one of the first to start buying for the Radio City Music Hall show on Sun. and yet I got seats in the 13th row all the way to the left (again lousy seats)! How could they have filled up all of those other seats so fast? There's no way. I always buy the most expensive seats for Morrissey in the hopes of getting as close as possible, but it looks as though paying the most and being one of the first of the purchasers of the pre-sale tix is kind of meaningless.

HOWEVER, I really have to say that Morrissey has absolutely nothing to do with this and he is most likely completely unaware of any of these kinds of things. There is no reason for any artist to be that involved in how these things work. Even if it becomes a big deal with Sanctuary, he may only hear about it and that will be as far as it goes. It is not his job to deal with things like this. Other people are paid to do these things and they do not have to run everything by him first. That's how entertinament or just about any other business works, reagrdless of how you may think it should work differently.

- Truer Poetry

similar deal here..... bought Boston tickets the the second they went on sale and got mid-level balcony. Much better seats were available a few days prior to the show.

I also had problems at the Tower Theatre in Philadelphia. I am a disabled Morrissey fan of over 15 years (a 27 year old with severe Multiple Sclerosis). Their idea of disabled seating is to put me, who cannot stand, seated in the far isle on the right side, and when fans stand up, they will obviously push and shove to get to the front (I would too if I could), making the disabled person TOTALLY not able to see at all, and even put in harms way.

I WAS OUTRAGED!!!

I'm not asking for a seat on the stage, just somewhere I can be close too, enough to see Morrissey and the band play, and not be put through hell.

I was the first (and only) person in line the moment tickets went on sale. I too was given seats at the far back of the theater, when the front seats were not even sold. Believe me I gave them hell, but they said it was out of their hands. After an unnecessary fuss, I was able to get 1st balcony seats, and my roommate had to literally carry me down the very steep stairs to get me to my seat. Well, once I was in my seat, there I was trapped for the evening, not being able to have my roommate carry me all the way back up the stairs to the bathroom.

This kind of fan treatment I could expect from any other groups fans.. just not Morrissey’s.

Emily Cronin ([email protected])

This appears to be happening in the UK as well. I bought my MEN tickets on the morning of the presale and got front row seats but four blocks back. There were obviously better seats to be purchased in the actual sale after pre-sale was over. It also appears that many people who don't understand pre-sale arrangements bought seating tickets after the standing pre-sale allocation had sold out assuming that there were no more standing going on sale at all. The end result was that there were many seating tickets for sale on Ebay by people who had wanted standing and got them in the general sale. My advice is not to buy in presale unless you can get exactly what you want and try to get seating plans before you accept any offers in pre-sale. Prer-sale appears to be something of a scam designed to shift the worst tickets and panic people into making rash purchases for fear of being left without. It's probabaly an industry standard and not likely to change anytime soon.

As hard as this may be for some of us, myself included, the only way to teach them is to hit them where it hurts...in their wallets. This means NOT buying tickets the second they go on sale. Maybe if enough of us do this next time, they will learn their lesson. Most of these shows didn't sell out, and this is Ticketmaster's way of creating demand for tickets- by selling the lousy ones first to insure that the true fans will come back and try for better ones. In the meantime, we're stuck with extra tickets that we paid a fortune for. They may have gotten us on this tour, but consider it a learning experience (an expensive one) and DON'T give in to them next time. Boycott TicketBastards! I could say more, but you get the general idea...

Will someone please tell the Morrissey camp to issue Julia a front row center seat to every concert? So she doesn't have to resort to cutting or stealing peoples seats? Thank you.

I looked at tix the second they went on presale for the dc show. We were pulling upper teir balcony seats. So, I refused to sit there and didn't buy. Got floor seats when they went onsale to the general public the next day. They were bad floor seats though -- way back.

Here's the kicker --> Just out of curiosity, right before we walked over to constitution hall, we checked ticket master, and were able to pull 4TH ROW seats. This was for 3 people together mind you! and was like 20 minutes before the show was to start.

We memoriozed the seat numbers and tried to get to those seats, but the first 5 or so rows were heavily monitored by bouncers, and we couldn't get up there.

It really is disgusting. And very frustrating. Who knows who is to blame. It would seem very odd to me for Morrissey, or Sanctuary, to have all too much control over the way tix are sold. Fuck ticketmaster.

Thomas

Guys, we are not the only ones getting screwed by Ticketmaster.

Class-action lawsuit against Ticketmaster
'Seats were inadequate for viewing purposes'
Wednesday, October 6, 2004

NEW YORK (AP) -- A judge has approved a class-action lawsuit against Ticketmaster and Madison Square Garden for allegedly selling seats with obstructed views of Michael Jackson's 30th anniversary concert three years ago.

The judge said the suit potentially covers 7,840 ticket buyers "who received no advance notice that their seats were inadequate for viewing purposes."

The suit filed by Dana Gross, 32, says she paid Ticketmaster $98.50 plus service charges for each of six tickets to see the self-styled King of Pop's concert in September 2001. She's asking for $14 million in damages.

Glen Rosenberg, 33, one of Gross' friends who went to the show, said after the lawsuit was filed, "We couldn't even see the show properly on the TV screens. It was so bad I might as well have been sitting in my bathroom."

Gross' lawyer, Peter Agulnick, said he had no comment on Judge Herman Cahn's ruling, which was made public Wednesday. No date was set for a trial.

Agulnick has said that his client wrote Ticketmaster to complain that her group had to sit behind a wall and could not see Jackson, Britney Spears, Liza Minnelli, Ray Charles or other performers.

Agulnick said Ticketmaster wrote back and basically told Gross, "Tough luck."

The judge allowed the case to go forward on complaints that included deceptive business practices and breach of contract. He noted that a Garden executive conceded employees were aware of the obstructions days before the concert.

Spokeswomen at both Ticketmaster and Madison Square Garden said they would not comment on pending litigation.

It was the same with the Apollo for the shows in New York in May. I bought immediately and they did not have ANY floor seats for sale. Because they sold out relatively quickly, I don't even know how the people down there got those seats. For being online at the moment they went on sale, I got 3rd row in the lower balcony. It makes my blood boil. And now we are all stuck with all these extra crappy tickets we do not want...

call the wambulance, dial whine-one-one.

seriously though... it does suck. it sucks major ass. herein lies a good lesson for some of our younger moz-solo fans. alot of you are young and haven't really had your spirits crushed yet by some of lifes harsher realities. i don't say this in an insulting manner, but rather as a matter of fact. you have no control over when you were born and i do think it's wonderful that moz has so many younger fans. but here it is: life isn't fair. cliche'? of course, but terribly, terribly true. the way tickets are sold has changed over the years. that is just the harsh reality of it. i have fond memories of camping out all night for morrissey tickets. the world has changed. i've read about the class action suit against TM and others and i'm all for standing up for yourself if you think it's wrong, but don't get your hopes up. i like the argument put forth in an earlier post about putting your money where your mouth is and not buying tickets but how many of you would honestly pass the chance to see moz at this point in his career? this could be it. maybe his last visit to your town and you wouldn't go because you don't like the way the tickets were handled? most important to remember is that this is not morrisseys fault. sometimes life just sucks. deal with it and focus your energy on something more important like getting bush out of office!

I knew something seemed strange! I bought my tickets the day after they went on sale - middle balcony @ the Orpheum in Boston. Not terrible seats, but nothing compared to the seats I bought THE DAY BEFORE THE CONCERT when he played in Portland, ME about 3 years ago. Almost front row! My tickets were $60 each - for the balcony??? Doesn't make sense.

i am pissed too. i am stuck with 3 extra tickets too. they are not bad though. i know this is a sore subject but i am willing to split the difference and sell them cheaper than the $80 i paid for each. how about 50 each? any takers. they are 11th row. kk orchestra 5 {left center} seats 510-512. i ended up getting 5th row. these seats are for saturday. anyone?
i walked into tower records on the day of the phili show and got pit seats! i was psyched at the time and sold my other tix for 25 bucks. but this is getting tired. my credit card bill is not even going to fit in my mailbox!

I had this very experience purchasing tickets for the Louisville show. I was between classes right as the presale began, so I purchased them within seconds of the start time and ended up with orchestra seats, but they were 15 rows back and almost flush with the wall. I was suspicious enough to check later, at which time I got tickets twice as close in one of the center orchestras. When I called to complain, the guy was a total condescending jackass and told me that it was because people had put tickets in their cart that they didn't end up buying which later got kicked back out into circulation. I was exhausted from talking to the jerk, so I let it go, but it definitely gave me a sour taste in my mouth about the whole enterprise.

I jumped on the first HOB pre-sale the second they went on sale and got LOGE seats which for me are unacceptable. I couldn't understand why only seconds after the first pre-sale this had happened.

So I decided I would try my luck with the SECOND pre-sale. (Why are there multiple pre-sales!?) For the second pre-sale slightly better orchestra seats were available, but not great.

Then, out of curiosity, I checked a couple days after the "regular" tickets went on sale and even BETTER seats were available. Since I had already spent over 300 dollars in shitty tickets I wasn't about to bother.
of tickets I don't want and will end up having
How is this fair? Now I am stuck with two pairs of tickets I don't want and will have to spend an extraordinary amount of money on e-bay just to get decent seats.

Seriously F&$K all of this.

I got a ticket to both nights at Radio City this weekend and both nights are really good seats. In fact, the seat that I got off the Ticketmaster pre-sale was hella better than the ticket I got during the MorrisseyMusic pre-sale.

It all comes down to how many you want and how much you're willing to pay.

HEre's the deal, if you buy tickets for a show, dont ever but them online because you cannot return them once they are printed and mailed to you. BUt if you go to a ticketmaster outlet and buy your tickets you MAY refund them, as many times as you like until you get better seats. This is not terribly legal, but it works. Many times I have had cancer, rabies, shingles, rickets, crabs, going out of town, death in the family etc. and the excuse has warranted my money back. Then I suggest you go back to the outlet, or a different one and constantly check to see what seats have opened up. If you dont like, you dont buy. True if you buy from the box office you beat the ticketmaster rape-me-in-the-ass-and-not-the-way-I-like-it charge, but those are also non-refundable. I suggest making friends with your local ticketmaster outlet clerk because I used to work a ticketmaster machine at a record store and they rip off the public in so many ways. I am just glad that I am able to get a little revenge and better seats. Case in point, for MOz OCt 10 at RCMH, I bought tix right at the general onsale point and got 1st mezz, row E , section 500. Apparentely, all the Orch seats were sold out the second it went onsale. Right. Maybe a week or so later, I kept messing around with the ticketmaster machine looking for single seats. The best I was able to get was row A, all the way off to the right in the 1st mezz, so I returned the row E seats, and purchased the row A seat. Then, on a monday when I guess they decided to open more seats (which they do constantly with no indication) I was able to punch up row RR on the floor, so returned the 1st mezz row A seat, and bought the floor ticket. Next time I went to work, I looked again and nothing new had opened up. Next day went back to work again and more seat had opened up, this time very close to the stage and so I returned the RR seats and am now content with what I have in row GG ORch, on the aisle, slightly off the the left. Granted the whole proces was much easier because I was only looking for one ticket, but if you go to your friendly ticketmaster outlet, and tell them to look up tickets in the "open" system, they can see every seat and section available for the entire venue so you might get two seats in the same aisle, but maybe one or two seats apart. However, if you were just going to look for two tickets, you would never find as good seating as you would if you were looking for two single seats in the same section or row. Hope someone find this information useful and fuck ticketmaster!

"Evil people prosper over the likes of you and me always"

The pre-sale for their recently announced Hyde Park gig was an absolute joke. The only tickets up on Ticketmaster were referred to as "unreserved standing", so you think - great, I can get there early and try and get up front.

Come the day of tickets going on general sale however, there's suddenly a category called "golden circle standing", which were £10 more and accounted for about a third of the park nearest the stage. So, those that bothered to register for info on the presale end up with tickets that leave them at least 50m from the action.

Morrissey has nothing to do with this. You OVERestimate his control of ticketing (or any artist for that matter). That is almost 100% controlled by Ticketmaster (Ticketmonster if you ask me), Clear Channel (or the independent promoter if there are any left alive) and the venue. Artists have lost their ability to direct the terms of their performance. The only way to stop that is to boycott Ticketmaster and Clear Channel but it would have to be a joint effort from the fans as well as the artists. No matter what you think about their style of music Pearl Jam and Dave Matthews have done a great job of refusing to work with these two mafioso companies at every chance they get. I am a very active concert go'er and figure I am currently paying Ticketmaster $200-$400 a year at a minimum to mail me a piece of paper after I place my own order on their web site. I have no alternative to that....so how is that not a monopoly? Ticketmaster needs competition. Anyone remember Ticketron before Ticketmaster bought them just to stop having competition? Write to your Senator and your states AG not to Sanctuary if you really want this to change. Don't forget YOU ARE A CUSTOMER and their are consumer protection agencies out there for this very reason.

The story Emily shared about being stuck without a view or exit path to a bathroom (or an exit in the event of a fire) saddened me. I would put most of that blame on the Tower theater and the state of PA. Locations should be set up by the theater along the side or above at the front of the balcony for anyone with a disability. The state should have laws to enforce that for the safety of their citizens. Sickening.
Emily I gladly would have helped you if I had known. I only wish I had. My thoughts to you.

ps (I PRAISE sanctuary. They were the only company sensible enough to understand Morrissey. Without Sanctuary...who knows. Sanctuary, Matador, Metropolis and record companies like them will be the salvation of this industry by catering to niche groups and artists with significant fan bases. Morrissey and the Pet Shop Boys are two great examples.)

i was 5th in line at the orpheum in boston to get tickets for the first nite (oct 4th) and was only able to get tickets on the balcony in like triple f (exageration, but still). i went early cuz i wanted to get front row of the balcony figuring that isnt such a popular seat id be able to get it. nope. but lo and behold that nite my buddy found the same seats we had wanted at about 1130pm on ticketmaster.... so i dont know but im guessing ticketmaster is the culprit. unfortunatly there really is no other way to get tickets to concerts in other cities if you dont use them. what to do what to do.

i love morrissey. i buy the albums, the singles on cd and vinyl, posters, t-shirts, everything. and there is nothing more exciting in my life than a morrissey concert. but this time, this oct. 12 in toronto, it will not be as sweet. i was on the phone with ticketmaster, got through, within the first minute of ticket sales, less than sixty seconds! i was sold a pair of tickets in row x, which at the hummingbird center translates to 32 rows from the stage!. i was surprised at how quickly the first 31 rows had sold...or so it seemed. but since i am such a hardcore fan i knew deep down that i couldn't stand to watch the show from such bad seats, so i purchased a pair of tickets in the fourth row from a ticket broker the next week. they cost me $200 each. i now have four tickets, two of which i cannot sell for even the face value, and the reason i cant sell them is because tickets for this "sold out" show were still available on ticketmaster's website just four days ago...tickets that are better than my first purchase. the last two times i checked the ticketmaster website (which was linked through the hummingbird centre site) i discovered that one day there were tickets availabe in row f. then the next day there were tickets in row d. how can this be? it seems the longer you wait to buy tickets the better tickets you get.
what a shame.
what an ugly shame!

robert

None of these explanations make complete sense to me. First instance, I don't think Ticketmaster is selling from the back forward. I missed the presale for the 11/12 Universal Ampitheare show, so I figured I was out of luck. I checked late in the day and there were some semi decent seats in the loge. I kept re-searching, and the seats kept getting progressively worse. On Monday, all there were were terrible seats in the mezzanine. But I on Tuesday, I found and bought two good seats in the orchestra. There's no logic to it.

You can usually get good seats right before shows, but this is something else.

during the presale for the upcoming los angeles dates at the universal amphitheatre i scored three pit tickets. the presale began at 9am and for six hours i kept receiving inadequate seating arrangements then approximately around the sixth hour i connected with the pit tickets. for the second date of the universal shows i was not eager to anchor more pit tickets so i finalized on the dead center section of the entire venue so i can be able to enjoy the view and take in the experience. front row or nose bleed locations does not make you a greater or lesser type of fan.

The pre- sale tickets really suck. Most of the people ( at least that i know) who are buying pre-sale tickets are the real hardcore moz fans.. wanting to be the first ones with their hands on some precious morrissey tickets, but for some reason, they are always the ones stuck in the mezzanine or back lodge seating areas. I, myself am not particularly the most happy, but absolutely content with sitting anywhere, as long as I can hear morrissey's beautiful voice and words and knowing that I am in the same room as him. But being in the pit or the very front is such an awesome expierence and ticket venues should really improve on how abouts they do their business.

i bought my tic on the venue presale the SECOND it came up. by the time i read the options which were not in the order of best to worst seats and then selected pit, it was apparently gone though i just got a nonsensical error message on the first 2 attempts. only upper half of orchestra was offered after that which i grabbed and ran over to ticketmaster only to see that they were selling the lower orch seats after i'd already purchased inferior ones.

i'm going to my show and sitting in my mediocre seat but i waited months just to get in on that presale. i have a full time job, a very full life and more than enough money to buy pit tickets from a scalper but i guess i just havent quite figured out how to play the ticket buying game.

either that or the fix is in cos i've got 4th row pit for the pixies and while i'm happy about that, i REALLY would have rather had that seat for Morrissey.

People..people...all presales work this way. They aren't going to release the venue's very BEST tickets in that manner, because it is not fair to the general public. You can still get good seats during a presale and it gives the most hardcore fans a chance to go ahead and just gaurentee themselves some seats but you wont get front row that way. This is the case with EVERY concert, not just Morrissey. T went ahead and purchased presale tickets to General Admission venues but did the actual public sale for a seated venue and got 2nd row. The band and the record company never promised that you'd have the very best seats in the whole house. It is naive to think that this is a scam to get fans to buy two sets of tickets. This is the standard for presales. You just log on and take the chance of buying the seats being offered, deciding on whether you can do better or not in the actual public sale, which for some bands, you may not. Thus, its a chance to go ahead and assure yourself some seats in a 'decent' area. From what I've experienced, the best presale seats for various bands are still good seats, you just wont be in the front.

I am a long time Moz fan (my first purchased album was The Smiths/The Smiths in 1984) and I bought my tix last weekend and I am very close to the stage for Radio City. So, let's keep the "poser" labels in perspective. Shall I reiterate the many cliched maxims that exist today: Timing is everything and life isn't fair -- DEAL WITH IT. The bottom-line is that music is a business (even if it alienates some of the fans).

not really everyone has their right to any ticket no matter if they are a hardcore fan or not

I just got my credit card bill yesterday to find that Ticketmaster gave my credit card details to a third party that sells entertainment coupons and they charged me $7 twice in the last month. This is outright fraud as far as I am concerned. I have called the third party to get a refund but am notifying my credit card company as well. New lows.

Hello. Is *anyone* interested in a Orch 4, Row MM ticket for Thursday's show in LA - Universal Amphitheatre? Suffice to say that I have an extra one because I wans't sure what seat I was going to get. Long story. Damn you, Ticketmaster. Damn you. Selling for $65. This is for ONE ticket...if you're already going, enjoy the wonder that is Morrissey!! I'm going on Friday...