Alain Whyte: Nobody Loves Us - Safe At Home Sessions (June 23, 2020)

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Regards,
FWD.
 
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Hovis Lesley

Well-Known Member
Fair enough, although it's shocking to consider that Alain will receive 50% of the publishing in perpetuity simply because he looked good in 1991.

The truth is he went into the studio with a handful of chords which he could barely manage to play. All the real work was done by the engineers and producer.

Suffice to say, any Tom, Dick, or possibly Harriet, could have supplied Morrissey with a sow's ear from which to make a silk purse.
Bollocks.
 

Verso

Well-Known Member
Fair enough, although it's shocking to consider that Alain will receive 50% of the publishing in perpetuity simply because he looked good in 1991.

The truth is he went into the studio with a handful of chords which he could barely manage to play. All the real work was done by the engineers and producer.

Suffice to say, any Tom, Dick, or possibly Harriet, could have supplied Morrissey with a sow's ear from which to make a silk purse.
What an absolute crock of shit. Go put on "Kiss Me A Lot" and have a ball.
 
A

Anony

Guest
Are you Jesse Tobias' mother or something? He will receive whatever he's due because he actually wrote the music - I think you'll find that's how it works. He's a unique songwriting talent and a skilled musician. Morrissey's output has been significantly poorer without him - it's no coincidence that his 'golden period' coincided with Alain being in the band.
Alain is a nice bloke who wrote tons of songs with Morrissey. Unfortunately, the best you can say about most of them is that they're quite good. He actually wrote more songs than Johnny Marr - both wrote close to 70. However, of Johnny Marr's, 55-60 were close to perfection. Of Alain's, only 10-15 were. In the biggest ever poll of the best Morrissey/Smiths songs, Alain had just one co-write in the top 20 which says it all. If you really think Best Friend on the Payroll, Roys Keen, We Hate it When, Boxers, Dagenham Dave etc.., are in the same musical league as the likes of Back to the Old House, you simply don’t understand music.
Think of a plodding, mediocre indie song in the Morrissey back-catalogue and it will probably be a Morrissey/Whyte composition. Yes, of course there a few brilliant compositions but the average song quality was not great. Stephen Street wrote many more amazing songs, yet he composed fewer than half as many in total as Alain. I wish Alain well, though, and would go and see him live. He has obviously written some good stuff, and I'm quite enjoying his YouTube performances. But let's all just keep things in perspective.
 
F

Far Forward

Guest
Bollocks.

Thanks for that valuable contribution to the discussion, however it doesn't alter the fact that Alain wasn't much more than a pretty face, throughout the early-mid 90s at least, and his Oasis-lite music was probably the reason Morrissey didn't dominate the charts in the way he might have done had he been working with a musician who had imagination and skill.
 

Ketamine Sun

<><><><><><><>
Thanks for that valuable contribution to the discussion, however it doesn't alter the fact that Alain wasn't much more than a pretty face, throughout the early-mid 90s at least, and his Oasis-lite music was probably the reason Morrissey didn't dominate the charts in the way he might have done had he been working with a musician who had imagination and skill.

:lbf:


If Alain’s contributions were ‘Oasis-lite’

then, wouldn’t have Moz been dominating the charts ?
 
F

Far Forward

Guest
:lbf:


If Alain’s contributions were ‘Oasis-lite’

I'm sure a lot of bands thought that at the time, where are they now, where were they then?

Morrissey, and, to a lesser extent, the producers, made Alain's meat & potato songs listenable.
 
V

Vegan. Cro. Spirit. 888

Guest
I'm sure a lot of bands thought that at the time, where are they now, where were they then?

Morrissey, and, to a lesser extent, the producers, made Alain's meat & potato songs listenable.


?

AlainT should start singing his Lil Yachty and Gossipy Girls songs on youtube for a change.o_O
 

Amy

from the Ice Age to the dole age
I'm sure a lot of bands thought that at the time, where are they now, where were they then?
Morrissey, and, to a lesser extent, the producers, made Alain's meat & potato songs listenable.

You could say this for every solo co-writer he's had, though - why go after Alain, who has been better than most? After the Smiths, Morrissey made a choice to recruit amateurs and people who were of a lower calibre than the established musicians he could have had - we all know this. Autobio made it clear that he sometimes lamented their lack of ability but ultimately he wanted it that way. Maybe he was just realistic in thinking that you don't get two of Johnny Marr in one career, so you pick someone good who fits in and that's enough. Nobody could ever fill Marr's shoes but Alain didn't do a bad job at all. If you're baying for the blood of crappy solo musicians, there are far worthier targets.
 
V

Vegan. Cro. Spirit. 888

Guest
You could say this for every solo co-writer he's had, though - why go after Alain, who has been better than most? After the Smiths, Morrissey made a choice to recruit amateurs and people who were of a lower calibre than the established musicians he could have had - we all know this. Autobio made it clear that he sometimes lamented their lack of ability but ultimately he wanted it that way. Maybe he was just realistic in thinking that you don't get two of Johnny Marr in one career, so you pick someone good who fits in and that's enough. Nobody could ever fill Marr's shoes but Alain didn't do a bad job at all.


?

TWO LEPEWS!!!!!!!!!! WTF?
COMET HIT ME NOW. :mad:
 
F

Far Forward

Guest
You could say this for every solo co-writer he's had, though - why go after Alain, who has been better than most? After the Smiths, Morrissey made a choice to recruit amateurs and people who were of a lower calibre than the established musicians he could have had - we all know this. Autobio made it clear that he sometimes lamented their lack of ability but ultimately he wanted it that way. Maybe he was just realistic in thinking that you don't get two of Johnny Marr in one career, so you pick someone good who fits in and that's enough. Nobody could ever fill Marr's shoes but Alain didn't do a bad job at all. If you're baying for the blood of crappy solo musicians, there are far worthier targets.


Not baying for anyone's blood, just trying to restore some perspective and to hasten the demise of this excruciating AlainWhyte-solo.com nightmare.

The elevation of Alain Whyte's status, on these boards if nowhere else, was partly due to nostalgia and understandable on those terms, but mainly it's been a tactic used by those who wish to be critical of Jesse Tobias, who is obviously streets ahead of AW in the musician stakes, and has shown himself to be a gifted and versatile co-songwriter.

Anyone who witnessed Alain's ham-fisted playing during live shows throughout the 90s will, however reluctantly, have to agree with this assessment. Alain looked good, but rather than being onstage he probably should have been watching from the third row, at least until he'd learned how to play his instrument.
 

Amy

from the Ice Age to the dole age
The elevation of Alain Whyte's status, on these boards if nowhere else, was partly due to nostalgia and understandable on those terms, but mainly it's been a tactic used by those who wish to be critical of Jesse Tobias, who is obviously streets ahead of AW in the musician stakes, and has shown himself to be a gifted and versatile co-songwriter.

You can't be serious. Jesse has always been substandard, at least until the new (and much improved) stuff on Dog. And I do mean painfully, embarrassingly, piss-poor as a live musician - I have watched him play and cringed at the absolute f***-ups he made. I can't imagine how bad someone would have to be for him to be 'streets ahead' of them, but I doubt Alain is it. Does the fact that Jesse was dreadful make Alain look a bit better? Yeah, probably.
 

Uncleskinny

It's all good
Subscriber
You can't be serious. Jesse has always been substandard, at least until the new (and much improved) stuff on Dog. And I do mean painfully, embarrassingly, piss-poor as a live musician - I have watched him play and cringed at the absolute f***-ups he made. I can't imagine how bad someone would have to be for him to be 'streets ahead' of them, but I doubt Alain is it. Does the fact that Jesse was dreadful make Alain look a bit better? Yeah, probably.

Amy has it right. Alan has an ear for a sweet melody, complex progressions, and structured tunes. Jesse is a clod-hopping chugalug. In fact, if you want to pinpoint when Morrissey's downhill journey began, it was when Jesse joined. A fellow boor, with no ear for a tune.
 

Surface

Vegan Cro’s parents regret the condom splitting
Not baying for anyone's blood, just trying to restore some perspective and to hasten the demise of this excruciating AlainWhyte-solo.com nightmare.

The elevation of Alain Whyte's status, on these boards if nowhere else, was partly due to nostalgia and understandable on those terms, but mainly it's been a tactic used by those who wish to be critical of Jesse Tobias, who is obviously streets ahead of AW in the musician stakes, and has shown himself to be a gifted and versatile co-songwriter.

Anyone who witnessed Alain's ham-fisted playing during live shows throughout the 90s will, however reluctantly, have to agree with this assessment. Alain looked good, but rather than being onstage he probably should have been watching from the third row, at least until he'd learned how to play his instrument.

Don't look at the thread if you don't like hearing the songs.
 

MozIsGod

Active Member
You can't be serious. Jesse has always been substandard, at least until the new (and much improved) stuff on Dog. And I do mean painfully, embarrassingly, piss-poor as a live musician - I have watched him play and cringed at the absolute f***-ups he made. I can't imagine how bad someone would have to be for him to be 'streets ahead' of them, but I doubt Alain is it. Does the fact that Jesse was dreadful make Alain look a bit better? Yeah, probably.

Well said, Amy.

It took Jesse Tobias fifteen years until I Am Not A Dog On A Chain to write music that was worthy of actual substance. Compare that with Alain, who was crafting beauties in 1992 with "Seasick..." and "We'll Let You Know" just over a year after joining Morrissey. I think it's obvious who the better songwriter is but we all have our own tastes.

Interestingly enough, Jesse butchers lots of Alain songs on stage. Just listen to his dreaded solo butcherings of "Fatty" and "Reader Meet Author," for example.
 

MozIsGod

Active Member
Alain is a nice bloke who wrote tons of songs with Morrissey. Unfortunately, the best you can say about most of them is that they're quite good. He actually wrote more songs than Johnny Marr - both wrote close to 70. However, of Johnny Marr's, 55-60 were close to perfection. Of Alain's, only 10-15 were. In the biggest ever poll of the best Morrissey/Smiths songs, Alain had just one co-write in the top 20 which says it all. If you really think Best Friend on the Payroll, Roys Keen, We Hate it When, Boxers, Dagenham Dave etc.., are in the same musical league as the likes of Back to the Old House, you simply don’t understand music.
Think of a plodding, mediocre indie song in the Morrissey back-catalogue and it will probably be a Morrissey/Whyte composition. Yes, of course there a few brilliant compositions but the average song quality was not great. Stephen Street wrote many more amazing songs, yet he composed fewer than half as many in total as Alain. I wish Alain well, though, and would go and see him live. He has obviously written some good stuff, and I'm quite enjoying his YouTube performances. But let's all just keep things in perspective.

If you really think "Sorry Doesn't Help" and "I Bury The Living" are in the same league with "Boxers" and "Tomorrow," you simply don't understand music.
 

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