TTY: New Morrissey T-shirt

- OLink from an anonymous person:

New Morrissey T-shirt - true-to-you.net
15 March 2017



Available at forthcoming Morrissey shows in North America.
Also available on Mporium.


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Anonymous

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I don't believe the shirt is being racist or has that intention but here is a question for the people who are saying this shirt isn't racist would you wear this shirt in area full of black people would you walk into a room full of black folks wearing this shirt and be confident no one is gonna give you dirty looks or wanna beat you down, and please spare me the pathetic yes answer because we know in real life it is a no. Just because you don't find it offensive because it's a Morrissey shirt and know the contexts of the lyrics doesn't mean that a person who is black who doesn't know Morrissey lyrics would, so unless your actual black person you have no idea how a black person feels.

I won't say the shirt is racist but I will say it is a bit insensitive and not much thinking went into it or consideration

I would wear the shirt in a room full of black people. If they didn't know the meaning of a lyric I would welcome the opportunity to give my best explanation and have the conversation. People of color imo often welcome upfront conversations about race relations. At least from my experiences. You are I assume a black person as in this post you seem to know how some black people would feel about the shirt and how they would react. If so an opinion would be interesting as the only person to identify as black in this thread says they don't see it as racist or offensive. Also black people can be wrong on issues of race even statements about there race. They can disagree and be on opposite sides. Being black doesn't make someone an expert on racism. They can still be needlessly sensitive and as biased as anyone else of any race. Same with women and feminism and poor people on the issues of poverty. The offense a lot of people seem to be taking is, is it ok for a non black person to make a comment on being black even if it's possible it's based on the mans own opinions who wrote a fair amount of essays on the subject. If it's not a comment about race and is about both men being depressed, amusingly making the judgements kinda racist as they reduce Baldwin to being a black man instead of just a man with things in common with other men regardless of race, then does it trivialize his black experience by alluding superficially to race. I would yes to people of other races being able to comment (especially here as it's not even clear what the hell morrissey is trying to say) and no to trivializing
 

Quando quando quando

Well-Known Member
The discussion is moving into "how can it be racist if I like their race" territory.

No, the t shirt is not racist as in "somebody throw him a banana" racist, but it's one big



from a privileged white humasexual pop star. James Baldwin couldn’t take off his blackness in the evening (somebody should tell Morrissey that blackness is not a costume). A black person doesn’t have to ‘feel’ black inside or out, they are black whatever they feel. He is likening his own being miserable to James Baldwin’s experience of racism and homophobia and quest for acceptance. It’s incredibly bad judgement and insensitive.

He is sympathizing with him cause of the experience of homophobia. Feelings of isolation and loneliness and knowing to be different. If he would choose another heroe of him that is white saying I wear white on the inside cause white is how I feel on the inside, would he be called a racist too?
Probably, cause it is Moz and the tag racism will always stick to him.
He knows and doesn't care anymore.

Maybe you don't want to believe a white, privileged humasexual (which he wasn't for a great part of his life, well privileged in any case) is capable of doing that.
I believe he does and not only with James Baldwin.
He likes him, for christsake. And admires him. The skin color doesn't matter to him. Which shouldn't matter to anyone in relation to this shirt.
 

marred

Member
The discussion is moving into "how can it be racist if I like their race" territory.

No, the t shirt is not racist as in "somebody throw him a banana" racist, but it's one big



from a privileged white humasexual pop star. James Baldwin couldn’t take off his blackness in the evening (somebody should tell Morrissey that blackness is not a costume). A black person doesn’t have to ‘feel’ black inside or out, they are black whatever they feel. He is likening his own being miserable to James Baldwin’s experience of racism and homophobia and quest for acceptance. It’s incredibly bad judgement and insensitive.

Ah no you're the one doing that.
 

No1uno

Member of the Month™
Subscriber
I wonder for all who would wear this shirt, and around African Americans. Would you wear the skinhead one around a Jewish area. Both are open to explanation, and in the absence of that explanation, could someone be offended/hurt/confused/angry by either, art or otherwise.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I wonder for all who would wear this shirt, and around African Americans. Would you wear the skinhead one around a Jewish area. Both are open to explanation, and in the absence of that explanation, could someone be offended/hurt/confused/angry by either, art or otherwise.

Well I like the film romper stomper and used to own a shirt with just an image of the guys and the movies name on it and I didn't feel like wearing it was insulting nor did I ever get complaints though I did get questions. Even so the morrissey shirt isn't the same as featuring a skinhead, I assume you mean neo nazi's and not oi punk based culture (I also had a shirt of rancids Lars in it who is a little punk skinhead) as neo nazis have a real history of physically attacking people and an establish hateful ideology. For a black community equivilant you'd need a shirt with a kkk member on it. All the morrissey shirt does is put an old lyric with the word black in it next to an image of a black man. It's not like black men can't relate to the lyric. At best all it does is superficially allude to race if you decide you want to read the intent as such. The shirt doesn't even really comment on race. If people didn't know the lyric or Baldwin and assumed the comment was made by the man on the shirt it just comes off as a comment on perhaps people being reduced to there skin color. At worst itd just be confusing. An allusion to race isn't the same as insulting or trivializing someone's ethnicity or wearing a shirt with a hate group on it
 

Quando quando quando

Well-Known Member
I wonder for all who would wear this shirt, and around African Americans. Would you wear the skinhead one around a Jewish area. Both are open to explanation, and in the absence of that explanation, could someone be offended/hurt/confused/angry by either, art or otherwise.

I would wear it and I am white.
"offended/hurt/confused/angry", all possible.
But I would defend the shirt and its meaning too ME!
Just from one person to the other.

James Baldwin was a great writer and artist.
And that is the reason for wearing that shirt.
I don't see any reason why any black woman or man would be or feel offended. Or be proud cause they are black too just as James Baldwin.
Or feel offended cause he was gay.
This is not about race or skin color.

Am I not allowed to wear a T-shirt with Bob Marley on it? Or Mohammed Ali? Because they are black and I am white?
Well too late, I did although it was some 10 years ago.
I saw some black guys at the concerts in Holland, in Utrecht and Tilburg wearing t-shirts and sweaters with Morrissey's photo and name on it, in black.
Is that racist too?
Just asking.
 
D

Dr Phil

Guest
I think if someone didn't know morrissey they'd probably think the black man on the shirt said or wrote the line who they also probably wouldn't know. Honestly I think the idea of censoring a vague statement with no immediate incendiary language, no racial hate language etc that could seriously more likely be misinterpreted, would be against the ideas of mr Baldwin on the role of an artist. More likely when said possible offense relies almost entirely on the projection of the viewer. What are your thoughts on the patti smith song. Was it a mistake. The Lou reed song I wanna be black
Johnny Thunders has a song called "Just Because I'm White How Come You Treat Me Like A n*****." Waiting for Morrissey to put that on a shirt or maybe cover it.
Patti Smith has done some great work but that song is not her finest effort. Lou Reed was an asshole but an iconic asshole. It's very difficult for white artists in America to write about race or use racial terms without offending someone or making an embarrassing misstep. I do respect those who attempt it and I think it's important to look at their work in context. I'm not ready to lynch anyone over a song they wrote.
But when they raise issues like this they really can't complain if someone has a quick negative reaction. Everyone has their own perspective. If I was a black person in America in the 1970's I'm pretty sure I would have thought Patti Smith was full of shit.
 

!Viva Hate!

pls scream inside your heart ⚧
I wonder for all who would wear this shirt, and around African Americans. Would you wear the skinhead one around a Jewish area. Both are open to explanation, and in the absence of that explanation, could someone be offended/hurt/confused/angry by either, art or otherwise.

It almost seems as if you're saying there is something inherently offensive about a black guy on a t-shirt to black people if a white person is wearing it...
 

No1uno

Member of the Month™
Subscriber
It almost seems as if you're saying there is something inherently offensive about a black guy on a t-shirt to black people if a white person is wearing it...
Hello Viva, it's been a long time, hope all has been good. I am not saying that. Be well.
 

No1uno

Member of the Month™
Subscriber
Well I like the film romper stomper and used to own a shirt with just an image of the guys and the movies name on it and I didn't feel like wearing it was insulting nor did I ever get complaints though I did get questions. Even so the morrissey shirt isn't the same as featuring a skinhead, I assume you mean neo nazi's and not oi punk based culture (I also had a shirt of rancids Lars in it who is a little punk skinhead) as neo nazis have a real history of physically attacking people and an establish hateful ideology. For a black community equivilant you'd need a shirt with a kkk member on it. All the morrissey shirt does is put an old lyric with the word black in it next to an image of a black man. It's not like black men can't relate to the lyric. At best all it does is superficially allude to race if you decide you want to read the intent as such. The shirt doesn't even really comment on race. If people didn't know the lyric or Baldwin and assumed the comment was made by the man on the shirt it just comes off as a comment on perhaps people being reduced to there skin color. At worst itd just be confusing. An allusion to race isn't the same as insulting or trivializing someone's ethnicity or wearing a shirt with a hate group on it

Thanks for the exampled reply. Good to think about.
 

12" on the slack

team baklava
He is sympathizing with him cause of the experience of homophobia. Feelings of isolation and loneliness and knowing to be different. If he would choose another heroe of him that is white saying I wear white on the inside cause white is how I feel on the inside, would he be called a racist too?
Probably, cause it is Moz and the tag racism will always stick to him.
He knows and doesn't care anymore.

Maybe you don't want to believe a white, privileged humasexual (which he wasn't for a great part of his life, well privileged in any case) is capable of doing that.
I believe he does and not only with James Baldwin.
He likes him, for christsake. And admires him. The skin color doesn't matter to him. Which shouldn't matter to anyone in relation to this shirt.

Oh for gods sake, Gerrit. There is no such thing as feeling white on the inside (unless, of course as a social commentary, in which case it proves my point). I like the guy's music, too, but come on.

The skin colour doesn’t matter to him? He f***ing put a picture of a black man on a t-shirt together with the line “I wear black on the outside because I feel black on the inside”. For crying out loud. You cannot take his skin colour out of the equation. “I choose not to see him as a black man, I choose to see him as a sad man”. Really? Well, James Baldwin’s skin colour and his sadness are linked, in his work his sadness and his experience of being a lesser person, his experience of racism are inextricably linked. You cannot take his skin colour out of the equation, you cannot pretend it’s not f***ing there and he was just a sad guy (which he wasn’t). James Baldwin himself most certainly didn’t take his skin colour out of the equation.



And neither did Morrissey. Choosing to only see James Baldwin as a “sad man” undermines his work and achievements and social criticism.

This is not an intelligent play on words, Morrissey doesn’t have the nuance and subtlety (or credibility) to show us the error of our racist ways. Whatever point he was trying to make - whether that was "I like James Baldwin", "I'm gonna show all you f***os how deeply racist you are" or "I'm just gonna stir some shit for the sake of it"- he made it with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer, and it completely backfired on him. No matter how the bots try to twist and turn this, it’s impossible to defend this f***ery.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Ha! What a clown.

See it for what it is: clever, funny, and way deeper than skin-deep.

Being offended is a choice, unlike being gay or black.

...but if you want to patronize and belittle others because you feel you know what they can or cannot handle, that's your call.
 

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