TTY: New Morrissey T-shirt

- OLink from an anonymous person:

New Morrissey T-shirt - true-to-you.net
15 March 2017



Available at forthcoming Morrissey shows in North America.
Also available on Mporium.


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Anonymous

Guest
Choosing to only see James Baldwin as a “sad man” undermines his work and achievements and social criticism

You could just as easily say "choosing to only see James Baldwin as a black man undermines his work and achievements". And he himself actually saw it pretty much like that. He didn't want to be reduced to being black. His work was far more varied than that.
 

Quando quando quando

Well-Known Member
Oh for gods sake, Gerrit. There is no such thing as feeling white on the inside (unless, of course as a social commentary, in which case it proves my point). I like the guy's music, too, but come on.

The skin colour doesn’t matter to him? He f***ing put a picture of a black man on a t-shirt together with the line “I wear black on the outside because I feel black on the inside”. For crying out loud. You cannot take his skin colour out of the equation. “I choose not to see him as a black man, I choose to see him as a sad man”. Really? Well, James Baldwin’s skin colour and his sadness are linked, in his work his sadness and his experience of being a lesser person, his experience of racism are inextricably linked. You cannot take his skin colour out of the equation, you cannot pretend it’s not f***ing there and he was just a sad guy (which he wasn’t). James Baldwin himself most certainly didn’t take his skin colour out of the equation.



And neither did Morrissey. Choosing to only see James Baldwin as a “sad man” undermines his work and achievements and social criticism.

This is not an intelligent play on words, Morrissey doesn’t have the nuance and subtlety (or credibility) to show us the error of our racist ways. Whatever point he was trying to make - whether that was "I like James Baldwin", "I'm gonna show all you f***os how deeply racist you are" or "I'm just gonna stir some shit for the sake of it"- he made it with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer, and it completely backfired on him. No matter how the bots try to twist and turn this, it’s impossible to defend this f***ery.

Dear 12inch, thank you for your insights and as much of them are very true, there is a point where I can't agree with you and that is the implication Moz is racist or that this shirt is racist.
Of course James Baldwin is black. Of course there is more then the feeling of "I wear black on the inside cause black is how I feel on the inside". The photo shows a black man.
The feeling I get from the discussion is that many critics seem to deny it is possible to symphatize and emphasise with another human being on the ground of differences of skincolour, race (races don't exist in my opinion, there is one race, the human race), sexual orientation, religion, etcetera, etcetera.
I think the shirt does show sympathy and empathy.
I am probably very naive.
I don't see the sledgehammer attack.
I do appreciate your opinion and arguments but I can't agree with them in this case.
But I will still be your friend cause I like you. :thumb:
 

12" on the slack

team baklava
Dear 12inch, thank you for your insights and as much of them are very true, there is a point where I can't agree with you and that is the implication Moz is racist or that this shirt is racist.
Of course James Baldwin is black. Of course there is more then the feeling of "I wear black on the inside cause black is how I feel on the inside". The photo shows a black man.
The feeling I get from the discussion is that many critics seem to deny it is possible to symphatize and emphasise with another human being on the ground of differences of skincolour, race (races don't exist in my opinion, there is one race, the human race), sexual orientation, religion, etcetera, etcetera.
I think the shirt does show sympathy and empathy.
I am probably very naive.
I don't see the sledgehammer attack.
I do appreciate your opinion and arguments but I can't agree with them in this case.
But I will still be your friend cause I like you. :thumb:

Dear Gerrit, I didn’t say it was racist. I said it was incredibly tone-deaf and not very smart.

If he’d printed up tees with his lyric “Yes I am blind, no I can’t see - Morrissey” next to an image of Stevie Wonder, would I think he hates disabled people? I don't know. Would I think it’s funny? Maybe. Would I think it’s bad judgment? Definitely.

I like you too, and I’ll be your friend, too, you big old hippie. :)
 
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Advice Animals

Guest
Here is this argument.
A: This shirt is stupid.
B: No, it's not racist.
A: I didn't say it was racist. I said it was stupid.
B: Maybe he doesn't even think about race. It's not racist.
A:No, it's just stupid.
B:That black guy wrote about depression. Maybe you're the one that's racist.
A: ...
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Just for fun, if you're interested, if you think the shirt racist or not or tone deaf to the historical black experience in America, here's a bit of one of his essays on race if anyone wants to read it. I like Baldwin and own his three library of America volumes which contain his novels and his essays. I could see morrissey being very influenced by what he has to say even from just his essays. It's interesting stuff

http://collectiveliberation.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Baldwin_On_Being_White.pdf
 

No1uno

Member of the Month™
Subscriber
Dear Gerrit, I didn’t say it was racist. I said it was incredibly tone-deaf and not very smart.

If he’d printed up tees with his lyric “Yes I am blind, no I can’t see - Morrissey” next to an image of Stevie Wonder, would I think he hates disabled people? I don't know. Would I think it’s funny? Maybe. Would I think it’s bad judgment? Definitely.

I like you too, and I’ll be your friend, too, you big old hippie. :)

That is a very good example to think about.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
That is a very good example to think about.

true but it's also not quite the same as there doesn't seem to be a plausible alternative meaning to the lyric, even the whole lyric and not a snippet, unless he was depressed unable to look at joyful things in life. From what I know of him this doesn't seem to be true. If it were the whole line with all of the good things etc and he were known for this then it would be more ambiguous I think and more meaningful. Also to a degree I don't think a shirt with a blind man on it and a statement that says I'm blind is offensive or insensitive. It's pointless and probably stupid but speaking a hard truth isn't in itself, or shouldn't be, wrong
 

Peterb

Well-Known Member
On this occasion I agree with you. I'm looking at it, and trying to find the racism. I reported the links, because I just got back in the country and it was literally the first thing I saw. It may or may not be a horrible t-shirt, but to be really honest with you, I can't see the big deal here. What if Martin Luther King was on there? Malcolm X? Snoop Dogg? Help me understand here, because I don't see the overt racism others see. I am an anti-racist, and I have been all my life, but cut the guy a bit of slack here - I just don't see it.
Well maybe not racist but pretty dumb. Morrissey has no conception of what it means to be black.
 

Peterb

Well-Known Member
I don't give a shit about this "Factless" website or Claire "The Moron" Slobberfeld trying to snag her autistic 15 minutes. Never heard of the website or her until now. Won't click on it and will never hear of her or the website again after today. Morrissey on the other hand, will LAST forever. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the shirt or Morrissey. †
Using 'autistic' as a term of abuse, I'm afraid rather betrays your inability to offer any valuable insight.
 

Ugly Devil

Well-Known Member
That's a pretty bone headed and insensitive response. You could have just apologised.

Apologise for what? 'Cause a meme upset you? Grow a set, no one is here to coddle you or censor themselves.
 

Peterb

Well-Known Member
Apologise for what? 'Cause a meme upset you? Grow a set, no one is here to coddle you or censor themselves.
It's such a shame that so many of Morrissey's fans strain to emulate him.
Of course you don't care. That's you. Good luck. Why not share some hate?
Morrissey would be proud of you.
 

Subspecies

New Member
a little late to be jumping on the band wagon of hate, but there's always room for more.

anyways, you can keep DavidK company.
Ketamine you're wrong. There's NO hate here, thus my moniker "Subspecies" which I wholeheartedly embrace. I LOVE it. I was quoting a famous James Baldwin title because it was funny to me in light of all this "racist" ridiculousness. It's funny to me that all the folks that seem to be defending the races that Morrissey supposedly offend, aren't even of that race. I and my circle of half-breeds are smart enough to understand that Morrissey isn't attacking us, specifically, when he spews his vitriol. It all eventually turns into kitsch and THAT is why we love him. The great comic.
 

Ugly Devil

Well-Known Member
It's such a shame that so many of Morrissey's fans strain to emulate him.
Of course you don't care. That's you. Good luck. Why not share some hate?
Morrissey would be proud of you.

No straining or emulating here Peter. Log off and wrap yourself in cotton wool. You won't be missed. :handwaving:
 

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