Are we looking at the second coming of the Wilderness years?

Fulham Road Lights

Ill-adjusted
Why do no labels want Morrissey? Is the current tour the second coming of the 2002 tour? A tour where new material is debuted but can't be released for however many years? Exactly how long are we going to have to wait?

I know nobody has the answers to these questions, but I thought it would make an interesting discussion point.
 
..because his current output is poor, his last 2 albums sold abysmally and he's a notoriously difficult artist to handle professionally. Morrissey is incredibly picky when dealing with record labels and he won't accept a new contract unless they allow him to have complete control of his songs, 'image', marketing and so on. I hope he makes a few compromises because if no record deal materialises, it won't be another "Wilderness" period, it will be the end of his career.
 
I think he'll be able to find a label. But I'm thinking it'll be one more album, the autobiography, hugs all around, and then he'll retire. Not for any reason other than it's just time. I can't imagine why he'd want to put his autobiography out while he's still writing and recording and playing live. That may pass for some people, but for Morrissey it seems like it'd be a good note to end his career on. Just how I see it.
 
His last two albums sold abysmally? Hmm, not sure about that one, Amy!
ROTT sold about 200,000 in the UK making it probably his 3rd best selling 'solo' album to date.
YOR sold around 90,000 which is a lot fewer but still considerably more than Maladjusted, Your Arsenal, Kill Uncle and Southpaw Grammar, making it a medium selling Moz album.
The problem is partly the recent sales trajectory rather than the actual sales themselves, going from 400,000 YATQ to 90,000 for YOR. Morrissey has become heavily dependent on Radio 2 for airplay. If they decide they don't like the lead-off single for the next album, and no-one else plays it, it could potentially sell as few as 50,000, and that's what's probably putting record companies off.
All he needs is two great songs which are released as singles, and he could easily hit 200,000 again, if not more, which would be enough to attract a decent deal.
If I was thinking of making Morrissey an offer, I'd wanna know that he a) had (or potentially had) two great songs (in demo form, or whatever) and b) would take record company advice on which singles to release. Releasing 'Something is Squeezing' was a very poor decision, as the last 45 seconds were just grating (to the casual radio listener), whereas 'Carol' would have been a relatively huge radio hit.
Maurice

PS Thanks for earlier explanation of your 20 year old's knowledge of all things Smiths related! I just had the feeling that you had actually lived through the prime-time Smiths/early Moz era given your views on his current output (which I partly share). Most of the younger fans aren't quite so ... disappointed!

..because his current output is poor, his last 2 albums sold abysmally and he's a notoriously difficult artist to handle professionally. Morrissey is incredibly picky when dealing with record labels and he won't accept a new contract unless they allow him to have complete control of his songs, 'image', marketing and so on. I hope he makes a few compromises because if no record deal materialises, it won't be another "Wilderness" period, it will be the end of his career.
 
Releasing 'Something is Squeezing' was a very poor decision, as the last 45 seconds were just grating (to the casual radio listener), whereas 'Carol' would have been a relatively huge radio hit.

Despite its chart position, I thought Skull was a great choice for radio and a better song than the three Refusal/Greatest Hits singles released prior to it. I'm not the only one disappointed in the live b-sides, there should have been some quality b-side material on that one.
 
His last two albums sold abysmally? Hmm, not sure about that one, Amy!
ROTT sold about 200,000 in the UK making it probably his 3rd best selling 'solo' album to date.
YOR sold around 90,000 which is a lot fewer but still considerably more than Maladjusted, Your Arsenal, Kill Uncle and Southpaw Grammar, making it a medium selling Moz album.
The problem is partly the recent sales trajectory rather than the actual sales themselves, going from 400,000 YATQ to 90,000 for YOR. Morrissey has become heavily dependent on Radio 2 for airplay. If they decide they don't like the lead-off single for the next album, and no-one else plays it, it could potentially sell as few as 50,000, and that's what's probably putting record companies off.
All he needs is two great songs which are released as singles, and he could easily hit 200,000 again, if not more, which would be enough to attract a decent deal.
If I was thinking of making Morrissey an offer, I'd wanna know that he a) had (or potentially had) two great songs (in demo form, or whatever) and b) would take record company advice on which singles to release. Releasing 'Something is Squeezing' was a very poor decision, as the last 45 seconds were just grating (to the casual radio listener), whereas 'Carol' would have been a relatively huge radio hit.
Maurice

PS Thanks for earlier explanation of your 20 year old's knowledge of all things Smiths related! I just had the feeling that you had actually lived through the prime-time Smiths/early Moz era given your views on his current output (which I partly share). Most of the younger fans aren't quite so ... disappointed!

I can't believe Refusal sold more than Your Arsenal!? Dear god. I don't know too many 'young' Moz fans, certainly not many my own age, so I don't know if they're similarly...disillusioned? I think Moz still has it in him to be great, and seeing him live is a thrill like no other, but he needs to reshuffle the band and find something that provokes his creativity. I've just read the main page article about David Tseng being ejected from the concert tonight, and it's really disheartening. It makes me wonder if Morrissey actually enjoys having 'enemies'.
 
His last two albums sold abysmally? Hmm, not sure about that one, Amy!
ROTT sold about 200,000 in the UK making it probably his 3rd best selling 'solo' album to date.
YOR sold around 90,000 which is a lot fewer but still considerably more than Maladjusted, Your Arsenal, Kill Uncle and Southpaw Grammar, making it a medium selling Moz album.
The problem is partly the recent sales trajectory rather than the actual sales themselves, going from 400,000 YATQ to 90,000 for YOR. Morrissey has become heavily dependent on Radio 2 for airplay. If they decide they don't like the lead-off single for the next album, and no-one else plays it, it could potentially sell as few as 50,000, and that's what's probably putting record companies off.
All he needs is two great songs which are released as singles, and he could easily hit 200,000 again, if not more, which would be enough to attract a decent deal.
If I was thinking of making Morrissey an offer, I'd wanna know that he a) had (or potentially had) two great songs (in demo form, or whatever) and b) would take record company advice on which singles to release. Releasing 'Something is Squeezing' was a very poor decision, as the last 45 seconds were just grating (to the casual radio listener), whereas 'Carol' would have been a relatively huge radio hit.
Maurice

PS Thanks for earlier explanation of your 20 year old's knowledge of all things Smiths related! I just had the feeling that you had actually lived through the prime-time Smiths/early Moz era given your views on his current output (which I partly share). Most of the younger fans aren't quite so ... disappointed!

I understood these to be U.S. sales figures as of:
March 05 2008

The best selling Morrissey album from 1992 onwards are:

Your Arsenal: 366,047
Bona Drag: 360,977
Vauxhall & I: 293,017
Viva Hate: 234,804
You Are The Quarry: 230,169
Kill Uncle: 221,293
Best of Morrissey: 179,746
Maladjusted: 88,554
World Of Morrissey: 69,357
Southpaw Grammar: 67,451
 
Did you all read the thread called Is This Website Why Morrissey Is Without A Record Deal? from a few days ago?

Well, at the time I would have said NO, the website isn't that important from a recording contract standpoint. But, considering the recent chain of events (the t-shirts, the facebook background to the t-shirts, Davidt's dismissal from a gig, the uptake in traffic from newbies -- some of whom are more dodgy than the regulars and some of whom don't see the big brouhaha), I am wondering if any record exec who had gotten wind of the recent (bad) press (and took a look at its effect on fans who frequent this rather venerable forum/site) would even BOTHER with an artist who seems to be actively alienating his fanbase (you know, paying customers). If Amy (above) is right and M loves having enemies, is it wise to make the people who buy your stuff dislike you?

So, I am now wondering if a "second coming of the Wilderness Years" might come...and rest solely at the feet of Morrissey himself. Could he be trying to kill his career? I mean, he's not exactly known for music that irritates people into loving him in spite of his irascibility. Or is he?
 
Well, at the time I would have said NO, the website isn't that important from a recording contract standpoint. But, considering the recent chain of events (the t-shirts, the facebook background to the t-shirts, Davidt's dismissal from a gig, the uptake in traffic from newbies -- some of whom are more dodgy than the regulars and some of whom don't see the big brouhaha), I am wondering if any record exec who had gotten wind of the recent (bad) press (and took a look at its effect on fans who frequent this rather venerable forum/site) would even BOTHER with an artist who seems to be actively alienating his fanbase (you know, paying customers). If Amy (above) is right and M loves having enemies, is it wise to make the people who buy your stuff dislike you?

So, I am now wondering if a "second coming of the Wilderness Years" might come...and rest solely at the feet of Morrissey himself. Could he be trying to kill his career? I mean, he's not exactly known for music that irritates people into loving him in spite of his irascibility. Or is he?

Now, I'm just typing this from a personal standpoint. But as for myself, I can honestly say that none of the recent events would inhibit me from purchasing a new Morrissey album if it were on the shelves next week. Because to me, none of this has to do with the actual music, which is why I'm here in the first place. I'm sure if I was David Tseng, I'd be singing a different tune. But as it is, I knew Morrissey was quite an asshole in the first place, although recently he's been fitting the definition more with his actions (well, just the Tseng thing - I really wasn't bothered much at all by the "f*** Morrissey-solo" thing). I like the man's music. So if I discover that his new songs fit my palette, I will buy the album. Simple as that. For me, I don't really think it matters about what he does - unless, like I said, it would effect me personally. He would have to make a statement against me or start kicking me out of gigs or making the prices of albums drastically unreasonable for me to stop buying his albums. Like I said in another thread, I really don't spend too much money on Morrissey - I'm not a collector and I rarely buy compilations, it's mostly just for the new studio material and the occasional live album. Really, no more money than I spend on any other artist. If I like the music, I'll buy it. He's just got to not f*** with me personally. That's all.
 
For me the wilderness tours of 1999, 2002 and now have been the best by far. Long may the wilderness continue....
 
For me the wilderness tours of 1999, 2002 and now have been the best by far. Long may the wilderness continue....

You want him to retire?
 
If he toured every couple of years with Setlists like this I would be happy. I quite like 2 of the new songs and should he release an album in future years I would buy it and listen to it.

I dont find myself listening to the Quarry onwards albums very often though to be honest. In the car on my travels its Bona Drag, Vauxhall, Your Arsenal and Maladjusted
 
You've got to tell me who they, because I really can't find any. :straightface:

Well, it's all down to taste really. I could posts new artists that I like here, and you and any number of others might scoff and talk shit. But that's just because many users here musical equate taste with musicianship and creativity. What I do know is that there are certainly enough people out there who have honest intentions, and although I might not like the music they are making, I cannot deny that they know what they are doing. Perhaps they haven't even picked up much more than an internet following yet. There ARE good musicians out there. Morrissey is not an end-all, and he is certainly not the best who ever lived. He was good in his time - and for that I will certainly thank him - and he might just have one more surprise up his sleeve for all of us. I guess we'll find out. But never limit yourself. Actively go out and find good music. Don't expect it to come to you, because sometimes the most creative bands are only minimally recognized.
 
It's going to happen eventually. He's finished his autobiography. What more do you want? There are other people to listen to.

Well of course it is.. but for Morrissey to end his career himself, and on this awfully sour note? I don't think that's very likely. After the whole 'Liverpool fiasco' two years ago, I remember hoping he'd give us one last tour to rinse away the bad taste of everything that happened. Now he's given us another tour, and it's shaping up to end even more disastrously than the last one. He really has turned into a bully, and it's a shame because vocally this tour has been his best in years.
 
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Well of course it is.. but for Morrissey to end his career himself, and on this awfully sour note? I don't think that's very likely. After the whole 'Liverpool fiasco' two years ago, I remember hoping he'd give us one last tour to rinse away the bad taste of everything that happened. Now he's given us another tour, and it's shaping up to end even more disastrously than the last one. He really has turned into a bully, and it's a shame because vocally this tour has been his best in years.

Bottom line (and one that has come to light recently for several people on this forum) is that I don't need to like the man to like his music, and ultimately, that is what he will be remembered most for. Just looking at this tour from a musical perspective, I think it's doing his career rather good. Apart from the Lou Reed cover, but that's just personal taste :o
 
Now, I'm just typing this from a personal standpoint. But as for myself, I can honestly say that none of the recent events would inhibit me from purchasing a new Morrissey album if it were on the shelves next week. Because to me, none of this has to do with the actual music, which is why I'm here in the first place. I'm sure if I was David Tseng, I'd be singing a different tune. But as it is, I knew Morrissey was quite an asshole in the first place, although recently he's been fitting the definition more with his actions (well, just the Tseng thing - I really wasn't bothered much at all by the "f*** Morrissey-solo" thing). I like the man's music. So if I discover that his new songs fit my palette, I will buy the album. Simple as that. For me, I don't really think it matters about what he does - unless, like I said, it would effect me personally. He would have to make a statement against me or start kicking me out of gigs or making the prices of albums drastically unreasonable for me to stop buying his albums. Like I said in another thread, I really don't spend too much money on Morrissey - I'm not a collector and I rarely buy compilations, it's mostly just for the new studio material and the occasional live album. Really, no more money than I spend on any other artist. If I like the music, I'll buy it. He's just got to not f*** with me personally. That's all.

Couldn't agree more!!
 
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