Do you think homosexuality is genetic or chosen?

Is homosexuality genetic or chosen ?


  • Total voters
    34
  • Poll closed .

oye terence

ampersand after ampersand
there is some debate among people,from one side to the other if homosexuality is genetic or chosen.

are people taught?
is it genetic?
 
Sexual Antagonism
A genetic theory of homosexuality.
By William Saletan


Gay couples can't have biological kids together. So if homosexuality is genetic, why hasn't it died out?

A study published last week in PLoS One tackles the question. It starts with four curious patterns. First, male homosexuality occurs at a low but stable frequency in a wide range of societies. Second, the female relatives of gay men produce children at a higher rate than other women do. Third, among these female relatives, those related to the gay man's mother produce children at a higher rate than do those related to his father. Fourth, among the man's male relatives, homosexuality is more common in those related to his mother than in those related to his father.

Can genes account for these patterns? To find out, the authors posit several possible mechanisms and compute their effects over time. They conclude that only one theory fits the data. The theory is called "sexually antagonistic selection." It holds that a gene can be reproductively harmful to one sex as long as it's helpful to the other. The gene for male homosexuality persists because it promotes—and is passed down through—high rates of procreation among gay men's mothers, sisters, and aunts.

This theory doesn't account for female homosexuality, which another new study (reviewed in Human Nature last week) attributes to nongenetic factors. It also doesn't account for environmental or prenatal chemical factors in male homosexuality, such as the correlation between a man's probability of homosexuality and the number of boys previously gestated in his mother's womb. But it does explain the high similarity of sexual orientation between identical twins, as well as patterns of homosexuality in families. It's also plausible because sexually antagonistic selection has been found in other species. And many scientists who think environmental and prenatal factors influence homosexuality also believe that genes play a role.

The authors note that according to their computations, the theory implies some testable predictions. One such prediction can be checked against existing data. The prediction is that on average, if you're a straight man, the reproductive pattern among your aunts will reverse the pattern seen among aunts of gay men. That is, your paternal aunts will produce children at a higher rate than your maternal aunts will. The authors check this prediction against the available data. Sure enough, it holds up.
 
Sexual Antagonism
A genetic theory of homosexuality.
By William Saletan


Gay couples can't have biological kids together. So if homosexuality is genetic, why hasn't it died out?

A study published last week in PLoS One tackles the question. It starts with four curious patterns. First, male homosexuality occurs at a low but stable frequency in a wide range of societies. Second, the female relatives of gay men produce children at a higher rate than other women do. Third, among these female relatives, those related to the gay man's mother produce children at a higher rate than do those related to his father. Fourth, among the man's male relatives, homosexuality is more common in those related to his mother than in those related to his father.

Can genes account for these patterns? To find out, the authors posit several possible mechanisms and compute their effects over time. They conclude that only one theory fits the data. The theory is called "sexually antagonistic selection." It holds that a gene can be reproductively harmful to one sex as long as it's helpful to the other. The gene for male homosexuality persists because it promotes—and is passed down through—high rates of procreation among gay men's mothers, sisters, and aunts.

This theory doesn't account for female homosexuality, which another new study (reviewed in Human Nature last week) attributes to nongenetic factors. It also doesn't account for environmental or prenatal chemical factors in male homosexuality, such as the correlation between a man's probability of homosexuality and the number of boys previously gestated in his mother's womb. But it does explain the high similarity of sexual orientation between identical twins, as well as patterns of homosexuality in families. It's also plausible because sexually antagonistic selection has been found in other species. And many scientists who think environmental and prenatal factors influence homosexuality also believe that genes play a role.

The authors note that according to their computations, the theory implies some testable predictions. One such prediction can be checked against existing data. The prediction is that on average, if you're a straight man, the reproductive pattern among your aunts will reverse the pattern seen among aunts of gay men. That is, your paternal aunts will produce children at a higher rate than your maternal aunts will. The authors check this prediction against the available data. Sure enough, it holds up.

So the Westboro Baptist Church should be calling for mandatory sterilization of the female relatives of homosexual men! :doh:

p.s. Is there gonna be a poll?
 
I don't think it's either, I think it's more complex than that. My own view is that it's due to hormone levels in the womb during gestation that affects the development of part of the body and brain that are concerned with sexuality. In twins of the same sex, it's very common to have one more male-oriented and the other more female-oriented, the implication in my book being that one was exposed to more f the make or female sex hormone. I've absolutely no evidence for this, it's just what makes sense to me.

Peter
 
I don't think it's either, I think it's more complex than that. My own view is that it's due to hormone levels in the womb during gestation that affects the development of part of the body and brain that are concerned with sexuality. In twins of the same sex, it's very common to have one more male-oriented and the other more female-oriented, the implication in my book being that one was exposed to more f the make or female sex hormone. I've absolutely no evidence for this, it's just what makes sense to me.

Peter



What about cultural background to the child?
It also has a great psychological influence to the child.
 
I don't think it's either, I think it's more complex than that. My own view is that it's due to hormone levels in the womb during gestation that affects the development of part of the body and brain that are concerned with sexuality. In twins of the same sex, it's very common to have one more male-oriented and the other more female-oriented, the implication in my book being that one was exposed to more f the make or female sex hormone. I've absolutely no evidence for this, it's just what makes sense to me.

I've never heard of that, actually. I know you're a twin; do you think that holds for you? Of all the twins I know (and I know dozens), I can think of only one set where there's a marked difference in their sexual identity--fraternal girls where one wants to dress and act like a boy.

EDIT: I voted "other", because I think that it's mostly influenced by genetics, but not entirely.
 
to be balanced,here is a christian take on the debate....

Dr. Albert Mohler, A 'Gay' Gene and The 'Cure' for Homosexuality

Contact: Irene Bennett, Stephen Bennett Ministries, 203-926-6960



HUNTINGTON, Conn., Mar. 19 /Christian Newswire/ -- On Friday, Dr. Albert Mohler, Jr., President of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, a man I highly respect, made some very controversial statements in a brilliant article on his blog regarding homosexuality.



Dr. Mohler pointed to research showing that some sheep were homosexual – whether in captivity or in the wild – due to their animalistic behaviors.



Dr. Mohler also suggested that researchers are now using those sheep to find if there is a "gay" gene, and if so, a possible "cure."



He then referred to an article to take science fiction even further, suggesting that if a "gay" gene is found in the animals, Christians better be prepared if one is also discovered in human beings.



Naturally, millions of Bible believing Christians across the country were enraged, yet he even went several steps further.



He discussed the question (not verbatim), "If you knew your baby had the 'gay' gene and you could correct it by eradicating the gene in the womb by a patch or some treatment, would you?"



Homosexual activists cried, "Another holocaust!" fearing now their so-called "race" of people (in their eyes) could possibly be wiped out in the future.



Finally, after enraging almost everyone on both sides of the issue who read his article and the controversy which continued in yesterday's Washington Post, Dr. Mohler also said (not verbatim), "Even if homosexuality was found to have a genetic and biological basis, that still wouldn't change God's view that homosexuality is sin."



The Bible states the eternal destiny for drunkards, adulterers, homosexuals and many other individuals is an eternal place called Hell – yet Dr. Mohler said there is an "escape" for all, referring to 1 Corinthians 6:9-11.



Stephen Bennett, a former gay man for 11 years, sexually involved with over 100 men, is now happily married to his wife Irene for almost 14 years and the father of their two little children.



Stephen said, "Dr. Mohler's blog post that caused so much controversy – while brilliant – is based on pure speculation, questionable research and science fiction."



Bennett heads several national organizations – Stephen Bennett Ministries, www.SBMinistries.org and www.TheParentsGroup.com to help individuals struggling with unwanted homosexuality – to overcome it – and move on to natural, healthy heterosexuality. His organizations also provide Biblical and practical support for family members, friends and loved ones of same-sex attracted persons. Bennett's statement follows:



"The reason Mohler's blog post drew so much media attention was the premise that the reader could walk away with: if someone is born a certain way, who are we to 'play God' and change nature?



"The FACT is homosexuality – having NO scientific, biological basis whatsoever – IS ALREADY a changeable trait WITHOUT a patch or injection, one that I have personally received 14 years ago: Jesus Christ.



"No matter the future's findings or lack thereof, homosexuality is, was and always will be 'sin' in God's eyes – an immoral, sexually behavior based lifestyle that should and can be changed.



"I agree with Dr. Mohler – all human beings are created in the image of God and deserve respect. However, as long as people like me – former homosexual individuals – exist and testify to God's life changing grace (and there are no doubt numerous men and women all around the world who have abandoned the practice of homosexual behavior), homosexual persons can never escape the REAL truth about their immoral lifestyle.



"Having a different skin color or even being born with a cleft palate is NOT 'behavior based' nor described as 'sinful.' Also, we are not animals like sheep. Animals are exactly that: animals. Animals are not held to God's moral codes or laws - yet mankind IS. Unlike animals, we are precious human beings created in the image of God, ingrained with the moral knowledge of right and wrong written upon our hearts. It's called our conscience.



"I had two choices set before me: what the world said about homosexuality – and what God and His Word said. Based upon God's truth that homosexuality is immoral, sinful and unnatural and same-sex attracted persons CAN change, as well as the eternal destiny in a place called Hell for unrepentant, practicing homosexuals, I have no regrets about choosing God's way over the world's when I abandoned my homosexuality in 1992. There are numerous other people just like me worldwide who made the same choice -- and guess what: we have NO regrets."
 
I've never heard of that, actually. I know you're a twin; do you think that holds for you? Of all the twins I know (and I know dozens), I can think of only one set where there's a marked difference in their sexual identity--fraternal girls where one wants to dress and act like a boy.

EDIT: I voted "other", because I think that it's mostly influenced by genetics, but not entirely.

I am a twin, but both boys got an equal share in our case.

Peter
 
It's a SIN regardless of the cause. Sinful!
 
IMy own view is that it's due to hormone levels in the womb during gestation that affects the development of part of the body and brain that are concerned with sexuality. In twins of the same sex, it's very common to have one more male-oriented and the other more female-oriented, the implication in my book being that one was exposed to more f the make or female sex hormone.r
hmmmm.
arent tegan and sarah both gay?


also-is heterosexuality genetic or chosen:p
 
hmmmm.
arent tegan and sarah both gay?


also-is heterosexuality genetic or chosen:p

Yes, and me and my brother are both not gay. All I'm trying to say here is that I believe that gay-ness or otherwise is due to abnormally large or small amounts of the requisite sex hormone during early stages of gestation. As before, absolutely no evidence for this, but it makes sense to me.

Peter
 
Genetics definately.

Its nothing a parent does.I've brought my sons up the same but if one was gay it wouldn't be due to influence.

I wouldn't mind if one was actually.Think of the shopping and the gossiping we could do!
 
The "genetic" or "choice" debate is based on a false opposition. Forget homosexuality versus heterosexuality. There is very little choice in sex, period. If you think about it, when it comes to the basics, we're all slaves to our sexual preferences. You're born, you develop certain inclinations, and as you go through life society distorts them in various ways, emphasizing here, curtailing there, and so on. By a certain age you are who you are, and while you may seem to "choose" some of the directions you go in, you're pretty much hardwired at that point.

So I think it's nice to say "He was born gay!" Everyone wants to be backed up by, ahem, hard science. But ultimately it's the same thing if you simply say "He's gay-- he had no choice", the same way I like women with bulbous fake breasts. Who cares if I was born this way? Either way I'm broke from spending all my money on strippers and porn.
 
hmmmm.
arent tegan and sarah both gay?


also-is heterosexuality genetic or chosen:p

Yes, or queer as they call it.

And bringing it back to the main topic of this thread, is it a choice that I find tegan and sara to be very attractive yet I am a woman? No it's not a choice. Am I a homosexual for this? I have no idea haha.

I think either "theory" could apply to be honest. There are certainly people who come out of the womb that way but there are others who discover it later in life. I think it could be either. And for whatever reason, we shouldn't judge. Just celebrate the differences in humanity. :cool:
 
The "genetic" or "choice" debate is based on a false opposition. Forget homosexuality versus heterosexuality. There is very little choice in sex, period. If you think about it, when it comes to the basics, we're all slaves to our sexual preferences. You're born, you develop certain inclinations, and as you go through life society distorts them in various ways, emphasizing here, curtailing there, and so on. By a certain age you are who you are, and while you may seem to "choose" some of the directions you go in, you're pretty much hardwired at that point.

So I think it's nice to say "He was born gay!" Everyone wants to be backed up by, ahem, hard science. But ultimately it's the same thing if you simply say "He's gay-- he had no choice", the same way I like women with bulbous fake breasts. Who cares if I was born this way? Either way I'm broke from spending all my money on strippers and porn.

I've known my friend James from pre-nursery days. We knew he was gay then (before the age of 3), we just didn't know what to call it. Speaking to him now, almost 40 years on, he insists he always knew he was gay too, form the very earliest age. He lives in Dublin with his long-term partner now, and is very content. My point is that there was no nurture/societal distortions when we all and he knew he was gay, he just was, and is. Nobody else in his family is gay. When some say that you are born gay, I'm inclined to believe it, but I don't think it's genetic.

Peter
 
I watched a documentary on this a while back with that gay bloke John Barrowman. The research proves it is genetic and also the more older brothers a man has the more likely he is to be gay.
 
I watched a documentary on this a while back with that gay bloke John Barrowman. The research proves it is genetic and also the more older brothers a man has the more likely he is to be gay.

"Blanchard and Klassen (1997) reported that each older brother increases the odds of being gay by 33%. This is now "one of the most reliable epidemiological variables ever identified in the study of sexual orientation.""

Wiki

Imagine if some Duggar boys turn out to be gay :tears:
 
I've known my friend James from pre-nursery days. We knew he was gay then (before the age of 3), we just didn't know what to call it. Speaking to him now, almost 40 years on, he insists he always knew he was gay too, form the very earliest age. He lives in Dublin with his long-term partner now, and is very content. My point is that there was no nurture/societal distortions when we all and he knew he was gay, he just was, and is. Nobody else in his family is gay. When some say that you are born gay, I'm inclined to believe it, but I don't think it's genetic.

Peter

I'm curious to know how you knew James was gay at that age-- did you know what "gay" even meant?

James's sexuality wasn't distorted in the sense that he was exposed to too many Barbra Streisand movies or went to "Roman Gladiator Sleepover Camp" one summer too often. Our personalities are a complicated mix of the natural and the conditioned and it starts as soon as the doctor whacks us on our little asses, which is why I think the "born gay" thing isn't so much wrong as it is an irrelevant point. I am straight and my sexuality was distorted in ways I'm still paying doctors to figure out. We're all in the same boat.
 
Our personalities are a complicated mix of the natural and the conditioned and it starts as soon as the doctor whacks us on our little asses, which is why I think the "born gay" thing isn't so much wrong as it is an irrelevant point.

It became relevant in this thread :p
 
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