Don't you think Johnny Marr...

[MuteWitness616]

Johnny is a far superior song writer than Boz or Alan could ever be. I love Moz's solo stuff but it does not compare to The Smiths.

Johnny has said very complementary things about Moz's solo work. He even said he wished he had wrote "Every Day Is Like Sunday".

All the Marr haters need to chill out. It is one thing to side with Moz but to knock Johnny is just ignorant. Morrissey would just be another bloke tolling the parks in Manchester without him. Moz is great but Marr showed him how to express it.

you wanna fight??

 

[Danny_]

I don't think Marr just turned up on Morrissey's doorstep out of the good of his heart or because he stuck a pin on a map. It was because Morrissey had already developed a reputation for being an interesting frontman and lyricist.

 

[Kewpie]

I don't think Marr just turned up on Morrissey's doorstep out of the good of his heart or because he stuck a pin on a map. It was because Morrissey had already developed a reputation for being an interesting frontman and lyricist.

Yep, Billy Duffy who was in the same band with Morrissey tipped Johnny to see him.

 

[modrevolve]

Where would Jagger have been with out Richards..Where would McCartney been without Lennon..Where would Brown been without Squire..Where would Gallagher been without Gallagher..

Give it a rest Mutewitness!

 

[CrystalGeezer]

Life goes both ways..Johnny may not be known today as the Johnny Marr we all know, but without Johnny and the Smiths, Morrissey could still very well be umemployed sulking in his mother's house.

 

[viva pffft.]

Who's Morrissey?

 

[nugz]

Where would Jagger have been with out Richards..Where would McCartney been without Lennon..Where would Brown been without Squire..Where would Gallagher been without Gallagher..

Give it a rest Mutewitness!

I never knew Billy Squire and Bobby Brown ever collaborated.

 

[mcrickson]

Who's Morrissey?

That's my line

 

[lainey]

But what if it's Boz who's loyal to him?

and why not, they both like each other

 

[smiler]

When Johny left the Smiths he made a terrible mistake and has been pretending that it wasn't a terrible mistake ever since. He listened to people on the edge of the band who told him he was the real talent that the fag with the flowers was holding him back. The imagined he'd continue to write hits and this time the lyrics wouldn't have to be about vicars from leeds or fat girls with buck teeth and they wouldn't be sung by someone who was afraid to fly and who didn't want to leave his bedroom during the day. He shouldn't have let those whispering voices win out. Ever since that and despite the facts Johny has had to maintain that it was a good move to split the group up even in the face of the bleeding obvious. Thats why he slags Moz - Moz very begged Johny to come back in the press for years only for Johny to put him down. If johny was ever to say in the press "I was wrong to leave The Smiths, we could have just took a rest instead. Morrissey is the best lyricist of our generation and i did my best work with him" then I think Morrissey would invite him on tour the next day. Its all he has to do but even though its clearly true he'll never say it because his ego is too big

 

[viva pffft.]

That's my line

Sorry!

 

[mcrickson]

When Johny left the Smiths he made a terrible mistake and has been pretending that it wasn't a terrible mistake ever since. He listened to people on the edge of the band who told him he was the real talent that the fag with the flowers was holding him back. The imagined he'd continue to write hits and this time the lyrics wouldn't have to be about vicars from leeds or fat girls with buck teeth and they wouldn't be sung by someone who was afraid to fly and who didn't want to leave his bedroom during the day. He shouldn't have let those whispering voices win out. Ever since that and despite the facts Johny has had to maintain that it was a good move to split the group up even in the face of the bleeding obvious. Thats why he slags Moz - Moz very begged Johny to come back in the press for years only for Johny to put him down. If johny was ever to say in the press "I was wrong to leave The Smiths, we could have just took a rest instead. Morrissey is the best lyricist of our generation and i did my best work with him" then I think Morrissey would invite him on tour the next day. Its all he has to do but even though its clearly true he'll never say it because his ego is too big

This is actually a very good way of putting it, I think

Sorry!

Ahh it's okay. Your username is mildly amusing, so I'll let it slide

 

[lainey]

When Johny left the Smiths he made a terrible mistake and has been pretending that it wasn't a terrible mistake ever since. He listened to people on the edge of the band who told him he was the real talent that the fag with the flowers was holding him back. The imagined he'd continue to write hits and this time the lyrics wouldn't have to be about vicars from leeds or fat girls with buck teeth and they wouldn't be sung by someone who was afraid to fly and who didn't want to leave his bedroom during the day. He shouldn't have let those whispering voices win out. Ever since that and despite the facts Johny has had to maintain that it was a good move to split the group up even in the face of the bleeding obvious. Thats why he slags Moz - Moz very begged Johny to come back in the press for years only for Johny to put him down. If johny was ever to say in the press "I was wrong to leave The Smiths, we could have just took a rest instead. Morrissey is the best lyricist of our generation and i did my best work with him" then I think Morrissey would invite him on tour the next day. Its all he has to do but even though its clearly true he'll never say it because his ego is too big

well said

 

[modrevolve]

check you out

 

[Maurice E]

he might not have written anything that great since, but again, thats not my point. you can't just say for sure that Johnny wouldve been a complete nobody if it wasnt for Morrissey specifically.

err, you kind of can. Marr's spent 95% of his post-Smiths time working with well established artists. look at the only thing he's done with unknowns. The Healers. it was absolutely bloody awful. a commercial and critical disaster.

Moz, on the other hand, has spent 95% of his solo period working with little known or virtually unknown artists, and despite having lots of patchy stuff, he's achieved, with these little known songwriters, some of his greatest critical (Vauxhall) and commercial (Quarry) success.

I agree that the average quality of the Smiths songs is higher than Moz 'solo' (especially since 94) but I think we have pretty firm proof that Moz has achieved much more on his own than Marr has, and so it can be argued that Marr needed Morrissey more than Moz needed Marr.
I would also argue that Alain Whyte has written many more great songs than Johnny Marr in the last 15 years (altho he cannot compete with the prime-time Smiths compositions).

 

[Girl-with-the-Thorn]

Wow man..you REALLY show your age with some of your posts.

Life goes both ways..Johnny may not be known today as the Johnny Marr we all know, but without Johnny and the Smiths, Morrissey could still very well be umemployed sulking in his mother's house.

As for what music is better, The Smiths or Morrissey..there is no debate, no debate, no debate..in other words; The Smiths

well that begs another question. Why was Johnny's music so great during those Smiths years. was it somehow his connection with Morrissey, or b/c he was young and just more creative and had more inspiration, and couldve possibly had a similar connection with someone else?

he might not have written anything that great since, but again, thats not my point. you can't just say for sure that Johnny wouldve been a complete nobody if it wasnt for Morrissey specifically.

I wholeheartedly agree with both of you. I find this difficult to comment on, but I personally think that it was just something quite intangible- chance, fate, whatever you want to call it- that brought them (both tremendously talented) together. This doesn't exactly answer the OPs original comment, but it's just the way I feel.

I don't think either's other projects could quite top what they did together in The Smiths in the musical sense, because it seems to me that it was that partnership that made the band 'click' (not disregarding Rourke or Joyce here), but it can come very very close and still be excellent.

Just my two cents- but hey, what do I know?

 

[justme]

When Johny left the Smiths he made a terrible mistake and has been pretending that it wasn't a terrible mistake ever since. He listened to people on the edge of the band who told him he was the real talent that the fag with the flowers was holding him back. The imagined he'd continue to write hits and this time the lyrics wouldn't have to be about vicars from leeds or fat girls with buck teeth and they wouldn't be sung by someone who was afraid to fly and who didn't want to leave his bedroom during the day. He shouldn't have let those whispering voices win out. Ever since that and despite the facts Johny has had to maintain that it was a good move to split the group up even in the face of the bleeding obvious. Thats why he slags Moz - Moz very begged Johny to come back in the press for years only for Johny to put him down. If johny was ever to say in the press "I was wrong to leave The Smiths, we could have just took a rest instead. Morrissey is the best lyricist of our generation and i did my best work with him" then I think Morrissey would invite him on tour the next day. Its all he has to do but even though its clearly true he'll never say it because his ego is too big

very well said!!

I love Johnny but he did say the guy from MM was the best lyricist he had ever work with (when he was with them...I'm sure now is the guy from The Cribs )

 

[Raphael Lambach]

Did Moz care about Marr's work after Smiths have ended?

 

[teeth]

Is hot?

Yes.

 

[Jamie]

...has always shown a certain lack of respect for Morrissey solo work? I remember I have read somewhere that he isn't even curious to listen to an album of his because he exactly knows what to expect. I think this attitude is rather unrespectful of the man who once shared an important part of his artistic career.

Think of their creative relationship in the terms of a marriage. When spouses divorce and start new relationships, few and far between will actively talk about their previous spouse with the new one. He's moved on with his life. I think it's just that simple.

Cheers,
Jamie