Is Morrissey's music life-negating?

[Fulham Road Lights]

There is considerable scope for discussion on this topic. What do people think?

 

[Kewpie]

Definitely not.

His music deals with human conditions, life affirming and really inspiring.

 

[Fulham Road Lights]

But take a song like I Know It's Over. I mean, Morrissey actively describes the death of his protagonist. A death from a broken heart... Or even, death from a heart that will never be able to be broken because it will never be able to be loved by anyone. This is pretty life-negating to me.

EDIT: Just as an unrelated aside, I'm listening to the song now and I've just noticed something new, after hundreds of listens to the song, that when he says the word 'guts' I think it's the most northern I've ever heard him sound, in a song or in speech!

 

[Kewpie]

But take a song like I Know It's Over. I mean, Morrissey actively describes the death of his protagonist. A death from a broken heart... Or even, death from a heart that will never be able to be broken because it will never be able to be loved by anyone. This is pretty life-negating to me.

C'mon, it was written more than 25 years ago.
Morrissey went through hard times, but manages to carry on.

Also not all his songs are autobiographical.

 

[Fulham Road Lights]

C'mon, it was written more than 25 years ago.
Morrissey went through hard times, but manages to carry on.

Also not all his songs are autobiographical.

Of course, I was never accusing him of autobiography in his art. I'm just saying that the song describes a life-negating scenario. That if people want to take inspiration from the song, they are not going to get very far in life, apart from perhaps the lines about strength and guts.

 

[not_me_not_I]

Life-AFFIRMING. Morrissey is far more optimistic than I. "There Is A Light..." is about hope, despite all the crap and despair life evokes. "My faith in love is still devout..." Life is hard, but he's going to dig in his heels and sign about it anyway, and laugh at it when he can, even if it's through the tears.

Is it more life-negating to recognize the struggle and persevere, or to pretend that it's easy and ignore what's really going on?

 

[Fulham Road Lights]

Life-AFFIRMING. Morrissey is far more optimistic than I. "There Is A Light..." is about hope, despite all the crap and despair life evokes. "My faith in love is still devout..." Life is hard, but he's going to dig in his heels and sign about it anyway, and laugh at it when he can, even if it's through the tears.

Is it more life-negating to recognize the struggle and persevere, or to pretend that it's easy and ignore what's really going on?

There Is A Light doesn't seem to me to be about hope. I mean, the protagonist doesn't have a home (or at least he does but it's not a safe place to go to), he has strange fears when it comes to declaring love, and he doesn't care if he dies as long as it's with this person that he loves unrequitedly. Sure, he hopes for every day enjoyments like music and nightlife, but he has far more problems than hopes. Problems that make him disregard his own life.

The chorus is the most important part of the song for me. It doesn't seem to signify affirmation of life, quite the opposite.

 

[not_me_not_I]

Morrissey himself said that the light represents hope (although he has been known to make things up on the spot).
The protagonist is not in a good place, alone, homeless, rejected, but what is he doing? He is dragging himself out, trying to find people, lights, life...it might not be a reasonable hope. Even if death comes, it is not a cause for despair - his love for his companion brightens even death.

 

[CrystalGeezer]

He's saying he is the light and he never goes out. Because it's safer to stay in. To avoid the weirdos. The song is about looking for another person to go out with who isn't one of the weirdos. So to answer the original question I guess it's life affirming.

It also has amazing biblical parallels but nobody gives a shit about that stuff.

 

[Kewpie]

There Is A Light doesn't seem to me to be about hope. I mean, the protagonist doesn't have a home (or at least he does but it's not a safe place to go to), he has strange fears when it comes to declaring love, and he doesn't care if he dies as long as it's with this person that he loves unrequitedly. Sure, he hopes for every day enjoyments like music and nightlife, but he has far more problems than hopes. Problems that make him disregard his own life.

The chorus is the most important part of the song for me. It doesn't seem to signify affirmation of life, quite the opposite.

There is a Light that Never Goes Out is a very perverse life-affirming song to me.

 

[Fulham Road Lights]

The protagonist is not in a good place, alone, homeless, rejected, but what is he doing? He is dragging himself out, trying to find people, lights, life...it might not be a reasonable hope. Even if death comes, it is not a cause for despair - his love for his companion brightens even death.

But the protagonist seems to recognise he is fighting a losing battle. Death seems a preferable solution to his problems than actually getting on with life and trying to live it. How can anything that affirms life brighten death?

EDIT: As you say as well, death is not a cause for despair - that is surely the definition of life-negation.

 

[not_me_not_I]

So if love is the most important part of life, then if there is love in death, death is given a life-affirming meaning.

I can't play this game with "I Know It's Over." The only light in that song is that despite life sucking and love not being something to which the protagonist has access, in the end, at least he is not alone in his inability to experience love: "but not for you adn I my love". (Come to think of it, having 2 isolated people instead of one is not necessarily a good thing). If only she would look around and realise that he is a better choice than the conventional husband or the loutish lover, then perhaps they both could find fulfilment, but I don't see it happening. I like this song better anyway. I suppose it's life affirming for me because it says that I'm not alone or abnormal in my feelings of isolation and inadequacy.

 

[Fulham Road Lights]

So if love is the most important part of life, then if there is love in death, death is given a life-affirming meaning.

I can't play this game with "I Know It's Over." The only light in that song is that despite life sucking and love not being something to which the protagonist has access, in the end, at least he is not alone in his inability to experience love: "but not for you adn I my love". (Come to think of it, having 2 isolated people instead of one is not necessarily a good thing). If only she would look around and realise that he is a better choice than the conventional husband or the loutish lover, then perhaps they both could find fulfilment, but I don't see it happening. I like this song better anyway. I suppose it's life affirming for me because it says that I'm not alone or abnormal in my feelings of isolation and inadequacy.

Can you not see the paradox there with There Is A Light? How can death ever be given a life-affirming meaning? It's just logically impossible.

It's funny, I've sat here criticising I Know It's Over and yet I think it's one of the best songs ever written! There's something incredible about its sheer sadness. Johnny's guitar line fits Morrissey's lyric perfectly.

 

[Kewpie]

Can you not see the paradox there with There Is A Light? How can death ever be given a life-affirming meaning? It's just logically impossible.

It's funny, I've sat here criticising I Know It's Over and yet I think it's one of the best songs ever written! There's something incredible about its sheer sadness. Johnny's guitar line fits Morrissey's lyric perfectly.

Can you think that the protagonist is joking about 'if the double-decker bus crashes into us...'
He might be drunk and saying some silly things such as 'I never ever want to go home'

 

[Fulham Road Lights]

Can you think that the protagonist is joking about 'if the double-decker bus crashes into us...'
He might be drunk and saying some silly things such as 'I never ever want to go home'

Interesting interpretation. I think he might be jokingly exaggerating but still has the same feelings that he outlines.

 

[joe frady]

This is a ridiculous question to me. (No offence mind)
NO music, when it's created from the heart and head of a true and honest artist, can ever be life-negating. It's the very opposite in fact.
'Is Morrissey's suicide life-negating?' Should that ever occur, then the answer to that question would be yes.
I loved Nirvana, back in the day. I never thought Kurt Cobain's music was life-negating. He took his pain and made art from it; I liked that art. Then he killed himself, and I've never listened to a Nirvana song since. Not sure why. There just seemed no point in listening to the songs anymore with the knowledge that the person who created them wasn't living anymore.
To create music, or art of any kind, from 'negative' emotions or feelings is a positive, affirmative act.
So the answer would be No.

 

[Happy Maudlin]

This is a ridiculous question to me. (No offence mind)
NO music, when it's created from the heart and head of a true and honest artist, can ever be life-negating. It's the very opposite in fact.
'Is Morrissey's suicide life-negating?' Should that ever occur, then the answer to that question would be yes.
I loved Nirvana, back in the day. I never thought Kurt Cobain's music was life-negating. He took his pain and made art from it; I liked that art. Then he killed himself, and I've never listened to a Nirvana song since. Not sure why. There just seemed no point in listening to the songs anymore with the knowledge that the person who created them wasn't living anymore.
To create music, or art of any kind, from 'negative' emotions or feelings is a positive, affirmative act.
So the answer would be No.

Nirvana's music is more life-negating than Morrissey because of the passivity Cobain expressed his rage with. His articulation never came to fruition in his lyrics they were just cryptic and lacked clarity.Cobain could not express himself the way Morrissey did. I too used to be an avid Nirvana fan when I was younger, and I didn't see the depressing nature that everyone attached to their music then. But in the end Kurt Cobain's sentiment was destructive, Morrissey was never interested in oblivion. He never worked towards it. You are right art cannot tell you what do or how to believe, art only exists for its own sake. But the mind behind the art matters, or the person. For me, personally, Morrissey is a better example of life affirming qualities.

 

[Emil]

Sing me to sleep, sing me to sleep
I'm tired and I, I want to go to bed
Sing me to sleep, sing me to sleep
And then leave me alone
Don't try to wake me in the morning
'Cause I will be gone

I know it's gonna happen someday to you
Please wait
Don't lose faith

Why should it be an either/or question? I'd say that Morrissey's music is both life-affirming and life-negating. To quote Goethes Faust: "In me there are two souls, alas, and their/Division tears my life in two." Should I live or should I die? Is love available to me or not? Morrissey hasn't given just one answer to these questions. Another quote:

I am a poor freezingly cold soul
So far from where I intended to go
[...]
But my love is as sharp as a needle in your eye
You must be such a fool to pass me by

 

[Eraserhead]

Can you not see the paradox there with There Is A Light? How can death ever be given a life-affirming meaning? It's just logically impossible.

It's funny, I've sat here criticising I Know It's Over and yet I think it's one of the best songs ever written! There's something incredible about its sheer sadness. Johnny's guitar line fits Morrissey's lyric perfectly.

Yes, but the nature of paradox is a very important part of life and any strand of logic seems to lead there eventually. A paradox is as real as anything. After all, your comments here are clearly paradoxical.
Anyway, it seems you have answered your own question. This song is obviously life-affirming to you (and i'm pretty sure everyone else here).

 

[Raphael Lambach]

There is a Light that Never Goes Out is a very perverse life-affirming song to me.

The first time I've heard "I am human and I need to be loved" a girls has broken up with and I was lost. But this single and simple line has beaten on me and made me realise my own condition as human being, "In my lklife why do I give my ...." made me realise I didn't need to get in touch with anyone I ddin't wannt to or make me suffer as Christ.

So I can say Morrissey saved my life again and again.