Mike Joyce talks about The Smiths at The Mouth Magazine

An anonymous person writes:

Extremely good podcast with Mike Joyce at The Mouth Magazine.
Over an hour of chat about The Smiths, and some really interesting stuff.

Mike Joyce - The Mouthcast - The Mouth Magazine
 
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bhops

Last of the famous international screw ups.
Morrissey is still playing Smith's material. It's the only reason he's viable as a touring act, to draw out the Smith's fans. If he only did his solo material his audience would halve. He knows this. Why would Morrissey want a 'link to the past' if he thought they were all useless? Because he's a Careerist and if Johnny Marr hadn't taken action he'd have tried to carry on as The Smiths- with the despised Joyce and Rourke...who he also invited to help launch his solo career....yet all along he knew they were challenging his greed over royalties. You couldn't make it up. Hilarious stuff!

best
BB

I assume Morrissey plays Smiths songs because they're great songs a legitimate part of his back catalog. I mean should he not play any of the songs he wrote with Stephen Street because he no longer works with him either?

It is pretty well documented and I think even confirmed by Joyce and Rourke that after an initial attempt to carry on (everyone still in shock, Rourke & Joyce included) but then ditched it along with Rourke and Joyce in order to make a fresh start. You've been a long time fan for well over 3 decades and you know this, you're on much firmer ground when trolling Morrissey about his vegetarianism.
 
M

Musician

Guest
It is pretty well documented and I think even confirmed by Joyce and Rourke that after an initial attempt to carry on (everyone still in shock, Rourke & Joyce included) but then ditched it along with Rourke and Joyce in order to make a fresh start.

True, but then he recruited them in 1988 for two singles and its B-sides. Which is still confusing, given the fact the lawsuits were already on, and if he thought they're so bad, why chose them for these singles? I get the point of the Wolverhampton gig, but why in the studio? Why let Andy Rourke submit demos, let alone recording and releasing those songs?
 

Nikita

Senior Member
True, but then he recruited them in 1988 for two singles and its B-sides. Which is still confusing, given the fact the lawsuits were already on, and if he thought they're so bad, why chose them for these singles? I get the point of the Wolverhampton gig, but why in the studio? Why let Andy Rourke submit demos, let alone recording and releasing those songs?

One can also wonder why they have accepted.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Maybe because it's easier. Maybe between dealing with the business side of things and trying to find the time for peace of mind
I could see him just turning a blind eye..and going with the easier route. I also think(given the situation) he prefers (even if he doesn't like them) to surround himself or work with people he knows(more or less) rather than having to find new footing with total strangers,which can sometimes be draining. Though later he did come to his 'senses' and got a band.

" Got a band ? " Are you sure ? Have I missed something here ? Can you please list me ALL the members of this so called " Band " you speak of.

Looking forward to your reply and smiley facey things.

Benny-the-British-Butcher
 
M

Musician

Guest
One can also wonder why they have accepted.

Mike did hope settling it out of court (as he says in this very interview), Andy even did so. Who was right or wrong is unimportant, but they didn't want the Court case either, and definitely not the thing that became eventually.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
True, but then he recruited them in 1988 for two singles and its B-sides. Which is still confusing, given the fact the lawsuits were already on, and if he thought they're so bad, why chose them for these singles? I get the point of the Wolverhampton gig, but why in the studio? Why let Andy Rourke submit demos, let alone recording and releasing those songs?

It was - in my opinion - precisely *because* he was getting sued by Joyce, Rourke and Gannon that Morrissey got back together with them for those singles. He was dangling a carrot in front of them - accept the financial pay off offer on the table to settle the Smiths business, we're all friends again, and you're back in the group with me as a solo artist, and just think of all the lovely money that may come your way in the future?

Joyce refused the offer, stuck to his guns, and soon got pushed out again. Rourke took the deal on the hope of a better future with Morrissey and settled out of court, and so he ended up being kept on for the 'November' single...though as soon as he could safely do so and the legal threat was gone, Morrissey threw him under the bus and - according to Rourke, he doesn't even get any royalty payments since then:

After the Smiths broke up, you went on tour with Morrissey, right?
"I did a little bit, yeah. I mainly played in the studio for the … I dunno, because it didn’t actually turn into an album. Initially it was just me and Mike Joyce. And then it was just me on my own, and I wrote, “Yes, I'm Blind” and “The Girl Least Likely To.”

You get the writing credit on those?
"Yeah. But I don’t get paid for it."

I guess a year ago they re-released those on...
"On the Very, Very, Very, Very Best of Morrissey. “The Girl Least Likely To” is on that."

But why not argue with Morrissey about royalties? Is it just not worth it?
"He’s impossible to get ahold of."

But lawyers do these things.
"Lend me some money to get a lawyer. It’s Laurel and Hardy here: give it to him, to give to you, to give to him." (The Daily Beast, 2013)

I understand Andy being tempted by the thought that he might have had years of success ahead of him joining Moz as a solo artist. But it strikes me as typically shrewd and cutthroat business from Moz to fob him off on non-existent future promises, then drop him as soon as he was legally safe to do so.
 

and.and.and...

New Member
It was - in my opinion - precisely *because* he was getting sued by Joyce, Rourke and Gannon that Morrissey got back together with them for those singles. He was dangling a carrot in front of them - accept the financial pay off offer on the table to settle the Smiths business, we're all friends again, and you're back in the group with me as a solo artist, and just think of all the lovely money that may come your way in the future?

Joyce refused the offer, stuck to his guns, and soon got pushed out again. Rourke took the deal on the hope of a better future with Morrissey and settled out of court, and so he ended up being kept on for the 'November' single...though as soon as he could safely do so and the legal threat was gone, Morrissey threw him under the bus and - according to Rourke, he doesn't even get any royalty payments since then:

After the Smiths broke up, you went on tour with Morrissey, right?
"I did a little bit, yeah. I mainly played in the studio for the … I dunno, because it didn’t actually turn into an album. Initially it was just me and Mike Joyce. And then it was just me on my own, and I wrote, “Yes, I'm Blind” and “The Girl Least Likely To.”

You get the writing credit on those?
"Yeah. But I don’t get paid for it."

I guess a year ago they re-released those on...
"On the Very, Very, Very, Very Best of Morrissey. “The Girl Least Likely To” is on that."

But why not argue with Morrissey about royalties? Is it just not worth it?
"He’s impossible to get ahold of."

But lawyers do these things.
"Lend me some money to get a lawyer. It’s Laurel and Hardy here: give it to him, to give to you, to give to him." (The Daily Beast, 2013)

I understand Andy being tempted by the thought that he might have had years of success ahead of him joining Moz as a solo artist. But it strikes me as typically shrewd and cutthroat business from Moz to fob him off on non-existent future promises, then drop him as soon as he was legally safe to do so.
It was exactely what happened. I've read it many many times.
 

Surface

Vegan Cro’s parents regret the condom splitting
Mike came across as a reall decent man in that interview and I wish him the very very best in life, I really do.
The lengths and depths that snake Steven CrankFruad went to ! What a devious so and so !
His time will come soon, I pray it's very prolonged and twenty three times more painful than Thatchers.

Benny-the-British-Butcher

Worked at Albert Dock when this was filmed Benny, popped out to watch - look who is drumming, seemed a decent guy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8Tlt5i9M8A

Also stumbled upon this a few years back - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEoaVL3YYKY and this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVaYLuVK3XU
 
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Surface

Vegan Cro’s parents regret the condom splitting
No matter how hard you try Mike you'll always be just 10 percent in the worlds eyes.

No, in the worlds eyes he will remembered as the drummer in The Smiths, you are describing what posters on here will will remember him for - big difference.
 
No, in the worlds eyes he will remembered as the drummer in The Smiths, you are describing what posters on here will will remember him for - big difference.

Even tho i think The Smiths were Morrissey, Marr, Rourke and Joyce and not only moz like some fans here claim (moz and johnny contributed more tho), unfortunately, whenever the smiths are mentioned, most people only mentioned Morrissey and Marr and refer to Joyce and Rourke as the other two :confused:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Worked at Albert Dock when this was filmed Benny, popped out to watch - look who is drumming, seemed a decent guy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8Tlt5i9M8A

Also stumbled upon this a few years back - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEoaVL3YYKY and this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVaYLuVK3XU

Bloody hell ! Bob Greaves and Lucy Meacock, where has all the time gone ?
Great clips much appreciated and a great start to my day.
I remember Andy as a fantastic drummer in one if the greatest bands of all time. Fingers crossed for him and his future projects.
Thanks Surface.
Enjoy your Sunday.

Benny-the-British-Butcher
 

butley

Well-Known Member
Just because Andy allegedly doesn't get royalties it doesn't mean Morrissey gets the money. There are bodies that sort this out. It is not Morrissey's responsibility. Andy needs to get in touch with the relevant organisation for his royalties. I can send him the contact details for APRA in Australia.
 

Uncleskinny

It's all good
Subscriber
Bloody hell ! Bob Greaves and Lucy Meacock, where has all the time gone ?
Great clips much appreciated and a great start to my day.
I remember Andy as a fantastic drummer in one if the greatest bands of all time. Fingers crossed for him and his future projects.
Thanks Surface.

Enjoy your Sunday.

Benny-the-British-Butcher ������

But a rubbish bassist?
 

Poet

Banned
Bloody hell ! Bob Greaves and Lucy Meacock, where has all the time gone ?
Great clips much appreciated and a great start to my day.
I remember Andy as a fantastic drummer in one if the greatest bands of all time. Fingers crossed for him and his future projects.
Thanks Surface.
Enjoy your Sunday.

Benny-the-British-Butcher

Proof Benny is on drugs.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
But a rubbish bassist?

Oops ! Unforgivable! !
To tell the truth Mrs Benny was mithering me about going to IKEA not my favourite place
Come on guys I'm sorry it was a genuine mistake no drugs involved.

Benny-the-British-Butcher
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I know I'm taking M's side,blah blah blah. Though I have not dug in deeper and I have yet to see evidence to sway me to Mikes side.
Purely on a evidence based view of reality, the fact that this issue has already been tested in a court of law, and Morrissey has been found in the wrong - and appeals all the way up to the House of Lords have been turned down as lacking in merit - should point one towards entertaining the idea that Mike Joyce did have a valid complaint. But, of course, the Mozbots line up and assume that the legal system is in the wrong, and that Morrissey must be in the right, because...hey, it's Morrissey, and we agree with everything he says or does! He's infallible!
 
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