Morrissey A-Z: "Bengali in Platforms"

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
We are the Fall
Northern white crap that talks back
We are not black. Tall.
No boxes for us.
Do not f*** us.
We are frigid stars.
We were spitting, we were snapping "Cop Out, Cop Out!"
As if from heaven.


lol

I heard from wives and ex-girlfriends, who’d all been ultimately discarded or abandoned by him (one, girlfriend/manager/kazoo soloist Kay Carroll, exited the van on a freeway in the middle of a snowstorm). I heard tales of guitarists being blindfolded on the way to gigs or dumped in Swedish forests; there were stories of “creative tension” and psychological torture. Songs had been recorded live in the back of speeding vans. A drummer who hadn’t played for years found himself press-ganged into the Fall minutes before they played to thousands at Reading, by a singer and guitarist bloodied from going at each other with knuckledusters.

Smith was far too complex or intelligent to be a mere ogre



By complex and intelligent they mean talked to journalists & didn't shag blokes.
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
The anti-fascist Quietus whitewashed Morrissey's current band & referred to their Latin American sound as 'the horns of old Albion'.

In a piece in which the writer felt the need to flag up that he had a girlfriend.
 

Ketamine Sun

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I heard from wives and ex-girlfriends, who’d all been ultimately discarded or abandoned by him (one, girlfriend/manager/kazoo soloist Kay Carroll, exited the van on a freeway in the middle of a snowstorm). I heard tales of guitarists being blindfolded on the way to gigs or dumped in Swedish forests; there were stories of “creative tension” and psychological torture. Songs had been recorded live in the back of speeding vans. A drummer who hadn’t played for years found himself press-ganged into the Fall minutes before they played to thousands at Reading, by a singer and guitarist bloodied from going at each other with knuckledusters.

Smith was far too complex or intelligent to be a mere ogre



By complex and intelligent they mean talked to journalists & didn't shag blokes.

Lot of nonsense + speed freaks the bunch.

But yes agree with what you’re saying regarding the humaphobia.
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
Lot of nonsense + speed freaks the bunch.

But yes agree with what you’re saying regarding the humaphobia.

Yeah - I don't know how bad Mark actually was, but they report terrible sounding things & then completely exonerate him.

And they don't care about his right-wing politics at all.
 

Amy

from the Ice Age to the dole age
John Doran of The Quietus tweeted this about Morrissey.

View attachment 68344
View attachment 68345
Yet, John Doran is a huge Smiths fan who hero-worships Johnny and interviewed him for the "British Masters" series. He was so relentlessly fawning that I'm surprised Johnny didn't have to physically wash off the slime. Doran's hatred of Morrissey is a mixture of disappointment and pure jealousy that HE couldn't form a band with Marr.
 

GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

The Courage to Get on People's Tits
You can go to the original articles & SEE how much it's been distorted out of context.

You can also see that other artists went through worse racism scandals - Eric Clapton was literally a white nationalist. He literally said he wanted Britain to be white - without becoming pariahs.

And even if you dismiss that by saying they saw the error of their ways - it doesn't explain why left-wing arty types have no issue with Mark E Smith - who voted Tory, was pro the Falklands war, was pro Brexit, talked about what he thought was English & what wasn't, was drunk and abusive, slagged off Syrian refugees for not staying in Syria & fighting in the war, & used the N-word in a song.


John Doran of The Quietus tweeted this about Morrissey.

View attachment 68344
View attachment 68345

His essay - in which everyone is forgiven their real and imagined racist transgressions - except Morrissey.


The lyrics of The Classical - by The Fall - which John thinks are clearly not racist in the context of the song.

There is no culture is my brag,
Your taste for bullshit reveals a lust for a home of office
This is the home of the vain!
This is the home of the vain!
Where are the obligatory niggers?
Hey there f***face!
Hey there f***face!
There are twelve people in the world
The rest are paste
This is the home of the vain!
This is the home of the vain!
I just left the hotel amnesia, I had to go there
Where it is I can't remember,
But now I can remember, now I can remember
Hafta! hafta!
Message for yer! message for yer!
Too much reliance on girl here
On girls here, behind every shell-actor
Snobbier snobbier
Too much romantic here
I destroy romantics, actors,
Kill it!
Kill it!
Kill it a!
Kill it!
Kill it a!
You won't find anything more ridiculous, than this new profile
Razor unit,…

He asked some POC writers who c0uld or do work for him & they agreed it would be mad to think it was racist - Gabriel Ebulue said: I feel that as a black man liking music made mainly by white people it means I will have to wince every now and then at lyrics... not to mention whatever Morrissey says... ever.

His lecture should have been entitled - why heterosexual men can say & do terrible things & not have journalists hate them.

John had this to say about his upbringing:

Where I grew up, in St Helens, was pretty hardcore and there would be some people back home who would call me a puff or whatever for stopping. “Why are you quitting? It was only a bit of liver disease, epileptic fits and a burst pancreas. Are you some kind of shirt lifter?”

"Fascist agenda."

Lol

Odd.gif
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret

I know!!

What is wrong with these people?????

I honestly don't know how they manage to edit out nearly everything he says in order to obsessively focus on the few times he's out-of-step with current liberal-left social norms.

Stewart Lee wrote that he had no problem with murderers, paedophiles and antisemites but he could never listen to Morrissey again.
 

Ketamine Sun

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Yeah - I don't know how bad Mark actually was, but they report terrible sounding things & then completely exonerate him.

And they don't care about his right-wing politics at all.

Agree.

Just saying certain drugs regardless of gender can influence people’s relationships and the way they act towards each other in a negative way.

And as usual the press likes a good story, especially the ones they embellish on.
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
I have another example of men who are not Morrissey being given leeway.


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20210206_185623.jpg


& Trent Reznor is having to deny a story that's been in print since the 90s.


But neither of them did really evil things like use belong & Bengali in the same song or support a rogue feminist.
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
He's being dropped by nearly everyone - but I'm not seeing articles about how he's a pariah, that there's no way back, that he's without doubt been spreading white nationalism...

20210206_201340.jpg


In fact, there's concern for his welfare.

20210206_201756.jpg
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
In 1997 Trent Reznor said this:

IMG_20210206_215923.jpg


Celibate vegetarians are politically correct & that's bad.

But - he's not complicit in MM's reign of terror because - married with 5 kids. And not depressed.

20210206_220138.jpg


20210206_220105.jpg


Not just straight - hard straight.

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Music is really macho!!!

Theatre is not like this.
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
I should point out I have zero idea if Marilyn or Trent are guilty or not.

It's the social attitudes that are fascinating.

Evidence of extreme racism:
20210206_225210.jpg


Nothing to see here:
20210206_225128.jpg


What do we do with monstrous Morrissey:
20210206_233616.jpg


Safe space:
20210206_235600.jpg
 

The.Truth.

about Ruth
Comparing Morrissey to Marilyn Manson really doesn't work any more than any of karen's other defenses of Morrissey work. First of all Marilyn Manson is #cancelled in a way that Morrissey never will be. While it's true that they might both have trouble finding representatives and record companies that want to work with them, in Morrissey's case I don't believe anyone has broken a contract with him and stated that the reason was his support of any of the things he supports.
Morrissey might support Marilyn Manson anyway. After all these women that are talking about Manson now aren't that different than the women, men, and teens sexually assaulted and raped by Weinstein and Spacey and that was okay, right? Maybe Morrissey thinks Evan Rachel Wood didn't get what she wanted out of the relationship and changed her mind. Who knows?
But the real reason this is an absurd comparison is because everything Manson has been accused of is pretty much either indicated by things he has said and done publicly, lyrics he has written, or exaggerations of things he has used in his personal mythology/symbolism.
Roger Waters also used pseudo-Nazi imagery in his portrayal of rock stardom and rock concerts in The Wall but no one accused him of being a Nazi.
I don't think Marilyn Manson is a Nazi anyway. He's just made a career of using controversial imagery, and. like Morrisey, he can sometimes slip into trolling.

But anyway, I do believe the women that are coming out with their stories about Manson and I've seen some videos that are pretty disturbing that make it pretty clear that at least some of what he was engaging in with fans and others was not consensual. I was a fan of Manson and I think he made three great albums up there with Bowie or anyone but then he lost it. quite a while ago, and never really recovered. The only reason I mention being a fan is because it's not like most of these people that get #cancelled that I didn't care that much about anyway. Kevin Spacey was one of my favorite actors but generally it doesn't matter to me if Woody Allen, Bill Cosby or lots of others never work again anyway.

I do mostly agree with the messages of Marilyn Manson in his music and I disappointed and almost kind of angry at him because whatever he wants to do that is consensual is fine and no one's business but his own philosophy and the things he literally preaches go against the idea of rape. Threatening people and not letting them leave is not okay. Who does he think he is, Phil Spector?
The reason I'm disappointed in Marilyn Manson is that it makes his critics look like they were right all along and they really weren't. He's just another drug addict who lost perspective in his personal life and it's sad because he sometimes seemed fairly intelligent and presented a real challenge to Christian indoctrination, so it's sad that he will no longer be able to pose a threat.

He's taken the route of denying everything even though it seems there's quite a bit of evidence that he was a violent abuser. I guess he's trying to keep his career right now and took the gamble that denial would work but I don't think it's going to.

Anyway, Karen's usual pattern is to point out that certain people get away with so much but Morrissey can't get away with anything. It's just not true. Morrissey and Manson present very different images. If this was twenty years ago and someone came forward with stories about Marilyn Manson they'd be blamed and asked "what did you expect" much like Morrissey said about the victims of Spacey and Weinstein. The fact that Marilyn Manson credibly appears to be an abuser and probably a rapist doesn't help Morrissey.
And it has nothing to do with Bengali In Platforms which most people are willing to give Morrissey the benefit of the doubt on, anyway.
 
J

Janice

Guest
Comparing Morrissey to Marilyn Manson really doesn't work any more than any of karen's other defenses of Morrissey work. First of all Marilyn Manson is #cancelled in a way that Morrissey never will be. While it's true that they might both have trouble finding representatives and record companies that want to work with them, in Morrissey's case I don't believe anyone has broken a contract with him and stated that the reason was his support of any of the things he supports.
Morrissey might support Marilyn Manson anyway. After all these women that are talking about Manson now aren't that different than the women, men, and teens sexually assaulted and raped by Weinstein and Spacey and that was okay, right? Maybe Morrissey thinks Evan Rachel Wood didn't get what she wanted out of the relationship and changed her mind. Who knows?
But the real reason this is an absurd comparison is because everything Manson has been accused of is pretty much either indicated by things he has said and done publicly, lyrics he has written, or exaggerations of things he has used in his personal mythology/symbolism.
Roger Waters also used pseudo-Nazi imagery in his portrayal of rock stardom and rock concerts in The Wall but no one accused him of being a Nazi.
I don't think Marilyn Manson is a Nazi anyway. He's just made a career of using controversial imagery, and. like Morrisey, he can sometimes slip into trolling.

But anyway, I do believe the women that are coming out with their stories about Manson and I've seen some videos that are pretty disturbing that make it pretty clear that at least some of what he was engaging in with fans and others was not consensual. I was a fan of Manson and I think he made three great albums up there with Bowie or anyone but then he lost it. quite a while ago, and never really recovered. The only reason I mention being a fan is because it's not like most of these people that get #cancelled that I didn't care that much about anyway. Kevin Spacey was one of my favorite actors but generally it doesn't matter to me if Woody Allen, Bill Cosby or lots of others never work again anyway.

I do mostly agree with the messages of Marilyn Manson in his music and I disappointed and almost kind of angry at him because whatever he wants to do that is consensual is fine and no one's business but his own philosophy and the things he literally preaches go against the idea of rape. Threatening people and not letting them leave is not okay. Who does he think he is, Phil Spector?
The reason I'm disappointed in Marilyn Manson is that it makes his critics look like they were right all along and they really weren't. He's just another drug addict who lost perspective in his personal life and it's sad because he sometimes seemed fairly intelligent and presented a real challenge to Christian indoctrination, so it's sad that he will no longer be able to pose a threat.

He's taken the route of denying everything even though it seems there's quite a bit of evidence that he was a violent abuser. I guess he's trying to keep his career right now and took the gamble that denial would work but I don't think it's going to.

Anyway, Karen's usual pattern is to point out that certain people get away with so much but Morrissey can't get away with anything. It's just not true. Morrissey and Manson present very different images. If this was twenty years ago and someone came forward with stories about Marilyn Manson they'd be blamed and asked "what did you expect" much like Morrissey said about the victims of Spacey and Weinstein. The fact that Marilyn Manson credibly appears to be an abuser and probably a rapist doesn't help Morrissey.
And it has nothing to do with Bengali In Platforms which most people are willing to give Morrissey the benefit of the doubt on, anyway.
I’d ignore any of Karen’s ramblings. She’s probably seen Morrissey once. The rest is in her head.
 
A

Anonymoos

Guest
There doesn't seem to be any logic to this cancel culture malarky, but that's crowds for you. I think once an artist reaches a certain tipping point, then all the mindless hordes of Twitter jump on the bandwagon, in whatever direction it's rolling, just to save their own reputations, and be part of the winning side As such we have:

David Bowie - had sex with a 14 year old child, and is now literally regarded as a saint in the UK, and beyond criticism.
Morrissey - says a few politically dodgy things about immigration - is treated as Hitler reincarnated.

Go figure.
 
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