Morrissey A-Z: "Simon Smith and His Amazing Dancing Bear" (live cover)

Dirk Blaggard

Active Member
I'm at work, but for instance (in my opinion)

OK, Elastica used a smiths lyric but didn't reference it . Lots of the C86 bands. The drip singer from Gene admitted he was Smiths/Moz fan but tried to play down just how much he was a fan and how he tried to copy his whole personality etc, also his bands sound were like M's Alain and Boz sound - it turned out, it wasn't cause he liked M. He just wanted M's place in musical history. This is why he threw him under the bus when M became not fashionable. As opposed to Brett, Noel, Damon and Bobby G who continue not to speak smack about M (because M truly means the world to them)

The Manic Street Preachers often played down how much M meant to them but gave the game away, by mentioning him in a number of interviews.
Bowie was somewhat influenced by M, around the outsider's tour, his stagecraft. not to mention the Buddha of Surburbia Lp songs.
Sparks kinda piggybacked on M for a while, their song " I Married Myself " is a Moz rip off/homage in some ways, Franz Ferdinand played down the M influence to a degree. Pete Doughtery, played down how much he was influenced by M, for a while Kingmaker, that band who did the song from Peepshow. Six Pence None The Richer, or whatever they were called.
Its not about just not mentioning they are influenced,its about playing down the importance he played to them. Pulp. Jarvis had love hate relationship for years. Jealous of M's success in the 80s , Jarvis was like a second rate Mark E Smith. Then in the 90s the Pulp were basically the disco smiths. Its criminal how much Jarvis has tried to side step the M/Smiths influence on Pulp
The band Money, were influenced by the M but tried to play it down. Declan Mckenna . There are more , There are more but Im busy at work


Also ,Henry Rollins kept saying he would hit Morrissey in the 90s, but when M was in town , he was desperate to "be friends"
Not to mention writers and comedy acts ( Stewart Lee for instance) , Kurt and Courtney were big M fans, the only ref in public Kurt made was on TOTP when he decided to sing in M style

 
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Janice

Well-Known Member
I'm at work, but for instance (in my opinion)

OK, Elastica used a smiths lyric but didn't reference it . Lots of the C86 bands. The drip singer from Gene admitted he was Smiths/Moz fan but tried to play down just how much he was a fan and how he tried to copy his whole personality etc, also his bands sound were like M's Alain and Boz sound - it turned out, it wasn't cause he liked M. He just wanted M's place in musical history. This is why he threw him under the bus when M became not fashionable. As opposed to Brett, Noel, Damon and Bobby G who continue not to speak smack about M (because M truly means the world to them)

The Manic Street Preachers often played down how much M meant to them but gave the game away, by mentioning him in a number of interviews.
Bowie was somewhat influenced by M, around the outsider's tour, his stagecraft. not to mention the Buddha of Surburbia Lp songs.
Sparks kinda piggybacked on M for a while, their song " I Married Myself " is a Moz rip off/homage in some ways, Franz Ferdinand played down the M influence to a degree. Pete Doughtery, played down how much he was influenced by M, for a while Kingmaker, that band who did the song from Peepshow. Six Pence None The Richer, or whatever they were called.
Its not about just not mentioning they are influenced,its about playing down the importance he played to them. Pulp. Jarvis had love hate relationship for years. Jealous of M's success in the 80s , Jarvis was like a second rate Mark E Smith. Then in the 90s the Pulp were basically the disco smiths. Its criminal how much Jarvis has tried to side step the M/Smiths influence on Pulp
The band Money, were influenced by the M but tried to play it down. Declan Mckenna . There are more , There are more but Im busy at work


Also ,Henry Rollins kept saying he would hit Morrissey in the 90s, but when M was in town , he was desperate to "be friends"
Not to mention writers and comedy acts ( Stewart Lee for instance) , Kurt and Courtney were big M fans, the only ref in public Kurt made was on TOTP when he decided to sing in M style

I think Courtney showed up on the Russell Bland show the night M did in Dec 06.
 

Dirk Blaggard

Active Member
Yes, I agree .
It's proof of how M is ultimately loyal to his influences. Lots of people wouldnt dare cover a song that contained lyrics they swiped and rearranged.
Good for him. As we know there are lots and lots of bands that steal from M but don't admit it and loads of fans who stalk him and pretend they hate him.
Also ,Henry Rollins kept saying he would hit Morrissey in the 90s, but when M was in town , he was desperate to "be friends"
Not to mention writers and comedy acts ( Stewart Lee for instance)
I think Courtney showed up on the Russell Bland show the night M did in Dec 06.
Yes , she also asked Michael Stipe to take her to meet M in LA. they had tea
Courtney was on IG the other day singing or playing the smiths . Kurt and Countrnys kid is a big M fan

His reach runs deep, which is why they cant cancel him

Oh He was a big influence an influence on Bjork but that didn't come out until she said Army Of One was about him .
 
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Verso

Well-Known Member
Also ,Henry Rollins kept saying he would hit Morrissey in the 90s, but when M was in town , he was desperate to "be friends"
Not to mention writers and comedy acts ( Stewart Lee for instance)

Yes , she also asked Michael Stipe to take her to meet M in LA. they had tea
Courtney was on IG the other day singing or playing the smiths . Kurt and Countrnys kid is a big M fan

His reach runs deep, which is why they cant cancel him

Oh He was a big influence an influence on Bojork but that didn't come out until she said Army Of One was about him .
I assume when you say "Bojork's Army of One" you're referring to Bjork's "Army of Me" which is definitely not about Morrissey.

Manic Street Preachers have a song called "1985" from 2004 where James Dead Bradfield sings "In 1985, Morrissey and Marr gave me choice" so I don't know what you mean when you say they "downplayed" how much Morrissey meant to them.

I remember reading Kurt Cobain's journals where he (rather falsely, in my opinion) actually wrote that Morrissey was "humorless" and didn't recognize the absurdity of life. I also don't detect a single influence of the Smiths or Morrissey in Nirvana's music.

The Smiths are one of the most celebrated and canonized bands in the history of rock and roll music. You seem like one of these weird Morrissey fans that needs to perceive him as this underappreciated mutt that's been kicked around and used and abused, but the reality obviously couldn't be further from that.

Every other band you mentioned either opened for Morrissey or blatantly paid tribute to the Smiths in their aesthetic.
 

GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

Well-Known Member
I assume when you say "Bojork's Army of One" you're referring to Bjork's "Army of Me" which is definitely not about Morrissey.

To be fair, while Army Of Me probably isn't about Morrissey (Björk said it's about her brother), an original handwritten lyric draft included the line "You're worse than Morrissey" at the end of the first verse, as mentioned by Emily Mackay in her book on Homogenic from the 33 1/3 series.

There's also one detail in the video which could be read as a Smiths reference.
The bomb that brings the lovers together in the end:

Screenshot_20210802-233126_YouTube.jpg
 

Verso

Well-Known Member
To be fair, while Army Of Me probably isn't about Morrissey (Björk said it's about her brother), an original handwritten lyric draft included the line "You're worse than Morrissey" at the end of the first verse, as mentioned by Emily Mackay in her book on Homogenic from the 33 1/3 series.
Yeah, I was aware of that. But given the fact that the song is an indictment of miserable people lost in self-pity, the line "you're worse than Morrissey" isn't exactly an homage.
 

GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I was aware of that. But given the fact that the song is an indictment of miserable people lost in self-pity, the line "you're worse than Morrissey" isn't exactly an homage.

No, I agree. I seem to remember that she also mentioned it in an interview (which I can't find right now), and it wasn't very flattering, if I recall correctly.
(Not saying he wasn't an influence on her, but Army Of Me isn't really proof of that).
 
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GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

Well-Known Member
I did find it. Not that anyone really cares, but now I can go to bed knowing that my memory still kind of works... :lbf:

"'Imagine you’re in a club full of heavy metal types and grunge people; Army Of Me is like someone’s granny blasting out over the PA and saying, ‘Snap out of it! Stop whining! Wash your hair! Smarten yourself up!’. These are bold and refreshing sentiments for a rock song. Refreshingly Icelandic sentiments.
'Charles Bukowski and Morrissey are not big in Iceland. Self-pity, suicide... forget it. I like to surround myself with people who are fierce and physical and have a duty to be optimistic.'"
Q, August 1995

The whole thing was rooted in Icelandic mentality according to her

"Icelanders are workaholics, who build their houses themselves, sew their own clothes. If they don't make it, they're considered poor guys, losers. Optimism is claimed, sometimes even violently. 'Everything is fine, everything will be fine' (she looks fierce) ... If you don't fight, you freeze to death in less than a week. Self-pity is the ultimate crime. A guy like Morrissey, who admits his own doubts and weaknesses, would be sentenced to death in Iceland."
Les Inrockuptibles, March 1994

(An attitude that doesn't go well with Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now, I guess 😉)
 
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Ketamine Sun

HANG THEM HIGH VERONICA
I did find it. Not that anyone really cares, but now I can go to bed knowing that my memory still kind of works... :lbf:

"'Imagine you’re in a club full of heavy metal types and grunge people; Army Of Me is like someone’s granny blasting out over the PA and saying, ‘Snap out of it! Stop whining! Wash your hair! Smarten yourself up!’. These are bold and refreshing sentiments for a rock song. Refreshingly Icelandic sentiments.
'Charles Bukowski and Morrissey are not big in Iceland. Self-pity, suicide... forget it. I like to surround myself with people who are fierce and physical and have a duty to be optimistic.'"
Q, August 1995

The whole thing was rooted in Icelandic mentality according to her

"Icelanders are workaholics, who build their houses themselves, sew their own clothes. If they don't make it, they're considered poor guys, losers. Optimism is claimed, sometimes even violently. 'Everything is fine, everything will be fine' (she looks fierce) ... If you don't fight, you freeze to death in less than a week. Self-pity is the ultimate crime. A guy like Morrissey, who admits his own doubts and weaknesses, would be sentenced to death in Iceland."
Les Inrockuptibles, March 1994

(An attitude that doesn't go well with Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now, I guess 😉)

How about Action is my middle name ?

Anyway, her opinion seems to be partially based on an image of Morrissey that was shed a long time ago.

I wonder how she feels when people make judgments about something she said in the past, etc that she no longer identifies with. She must know about the public image and how it can be used against you, she really should know better.

Though, I guess being negative about Morrissey is always good press, anytime.
 

Verso

Well-Known Member
How about Action is my middle name ?

Anyway, her opinion seems to be partially based on an image of Morrissey that was shed a long time ago.

I wonder how she feels when people make judgments about something she said in the past, etc that she no longer identifies with. She must know about the public image and how it can be used against you, she really should know better.

Though, I guess being negative about Morrissey is always good press, anytime.
Yes, anyone who says something ever-so-slightly critical of Morrissey “really should know better.” 🙄
 

Ketamine Sun

HANG THEM HIGH VERONICA
Yes, anyone who says something ever-so-slightly critical of Morrissey “really should know better.” 🙄


That wasn’t my point.. Regardless of who it is, don’t you think she’s been in the same situation? And should know better?

As I said ...


I wonder how she feels when people make judgments about something she said in the past, etc that she no longer identifies with. She must know about the public image and how it can be used against you, she really should know better.
 

Verso

Well-Known Member
That wasn’t my point.. Regardless of who it is, don’t you think she’s been in the same situation? And should know better?

As I said ...


I wonder how she feels when people make judgments about something she said in the past, etc that she no longer identifies with. She must know about the public image and how it can be used against you, she really should know better.
Maybe she just thinks Morrissey sucks.
 

Geoffrey Ingram

Active Member
Alan Price was an original member of The Animals and played keyboards on classics such as "House of the rising son"
 

GirlAfraidWillNeverLearn

Well-Known Member
How about Action is my middle name ?

Anyway, her opinion seems to be partially based on an image of Morrissey that was shed a long time ago.

I wonder how she feels when people make judgments about something she said in the past, etc that she no longer identifies with. She must know about the public image and how it can be used against you, she really should know better.

Though, I guess being negative about Morrissey is always good press, anytime.

The quotes are from 1994 and 1995.

Both quotes are of course part of a longer interview, where she talks at length about growing up in Iceland and worth reading in order to understand the context in which she made these comments.
And she doesn't actually give her own opinion here, she says that Morrissey is/ was not very popular in Iceland due to his image. Which, I would assume, she would be able to judge correctly.

Both quotes are of course part of a longer interview, where she talks at length about growing up in Iceland and worth reading in order to understand the context in which she made these comments.
Les Inrocks, 1994
Q, 1995
(First one is in French, but Google translate works quite well.)

Furthermore, I think she's actually right in saying that Morrissey is an artist who 'admits his own doubts and weaknesses' (even if some people claim that he has lost this ability over the years and thus lost appeal, which I strongly disagree with).

So, uhm, I don't know what Björk would say about Morrissey today, but I agree that in the 27 years that have passed since she made these comments, she probably experienced a lot of misjudgement because of her image herself. So she knows that whatever you do as an artist, people's cemented views rarely change and unless Icelandic society and its perception of art that speaks honestly and openly about human flaws has fundamentally changed, I doubt her comments would be very different.

Maybe Iceland isn't ready for Morrissey yet - or it wasn't in 2015 😉

Thread 'TTY statement: Iceland' https://www.morrissey-solo.com/threads/tty-statement-iceland.134066/
 

Ketamine Sun

HANG THEM HIGH VERONICA
The quotes are from 1994 and 1995.

Yes, well his image wasn’t really of the poet wallflower at that time. So
that’s why I feel she (and the interviewer) may have based
her comments about Morrissey
on an earlier image of him. Basically saying that a swinger of gladioli could never survive in Iceland, and she may be right there.


And she doesn't actually give her own opinion here, she says that Morrissey is/ was not very popular in Iceland due to his image. Which, I would assume, she would be able to judge correctly.

Yes, agree, she would be able to make that judgement if people in Iceland had that opinion of Morrissey based on the image of Morrissey being weak, sad, etc.


'Charles Bukowski and Morrissey are not big in Iceland. Self-pity, suicide... forget it. I like to surround myself with people who are fierce and physical and have a duty to be optimistic.'"
Q, August 1995”

She seems to be saying there that a person like Morrissey holds none of those qualities. To me Morrissey is all those things, just expresses them in different ways, even optimism.

Self-pity is the ultimate crime. A guy like Morrissey, who admits his own doubts and weaknesses, would be sentenced to death in Iceland."
Les Inrockuptibles, March 1994



I think it’s a bit of a simple minded view (by Icelandic people, according to Björk) to assume that just because someone expresses their vulnerability or emotions would not be strong enough to survive in Iceland. I mean the instinct to survive would over ride anyone’s artistic outpourings in order to stay alive.

Though I guess most nations like to pride themselves on being a ‘strong people’ or whatever.

‘It’s so easy to laugh, it’s so easy to hate ....’



Furthermore, I think she's actually right in saying that Morrissey is an artist who 'admits his own doubts and weaknesses'

I agree, I never said she was wrong there. But I can easily imagine that the opinion that Morrissey is weak or depressed 24/7, etc could be more easily or lazily made if based on the earlier Morrissey image, not that he’s a brute now, but I think you know what I mean.


(even if some people claim that he has lost this ability over the years and thus lost appeal, which I strongly disagree with).


Yes agree.


So, uhm, I don't know what Björk would say about Morrissey today, but I agree that in the 27 years that have passed since she made these comments, she probably experienced a lot of misjudgement because of her image herself. So she knows that whatever you do as an artist, people's cemented views rarely change and unless Icelandic society and its perception of art that speaks honestly and openly about human flaws has fundamentally changed, I doubt her comments would be very different.

Yes, even though his image was changing by 94-95, I wonder if her opinions ( like Henry Rollins) of Morrissey would be different now that his image is different than the image most still have of him, ‘pope of mope’ etc.


Maybe Iceland isn't ready for Morrissey yet - or it wasn't in 2015 😉

Thread 'TTY statement: Iceland' https://www.morrissey-solo.com/threads/tty-statement-iceland.134066/

They’re all barbarians in Iceland right? Or maybe that’s just an image I have of them, they’d never survive in civilized society where people use knives and forks when they eat.

;)
 
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