The Smiths are born in "The Jean Genie"

[Worm]

I would be more intrigued if there was a more direct influence, that hasn't been extracted or manipulated by other artists. "The swinging guitar" influence is inevitable, but there is no distinctive groove to the Smiths and ironically the Velvet Underground is known for its lack of R&B influences in their sound. The likelihood of the Smiths or Morrissey being directly influenced by R&B is small though.

Influence is rarely that direct.

Anyway, Johnny Marr has said many times that one of his inspirations in The Smiths was Bo Diddley. If Marr was a fan of Diddley and other R&B artists, and was listening to them quite a bit during his days in The Smiths, then one way or another there is an R&B influence on The Smiths. As Marr said in 1997, about "How Soon Is Now", "I arrived at the studio with a demo of the whole thing, apart from the tremolo effect--though that was bound to surface on a Smiths track sooner or later, 'cos at that time I was playing Bo Diddley stuff everywhere I went". I don't know how influence gets more direct than that, unless you define "influence" as "sounding alike", which is too narrow. Perhaps Bono hears the "influence" because he understands how artists borrow from their inspirations, in which case I would use his definition.

 

[Qvist]

Really! Listen again! The stop-start guitar intros are very similar and the main slightly Stoodgey riff is too. Apparently Johnny went lookng for inspiration midway into the making of this track and I wonder if "Cracked Actor" is where he found it...

I was talking about the brass in "I Started Something..." as compared to Bowie's distorted harmonica in "Actor"... again a possible source for Marr's arrangement.

Obviously, Morrissey's piano on "Disco Dancer" is an (off-key) nod to Mike Garson's random tinkling on "Aladdin Sane" itself - and there's something of "Lady Grinning Soul"'s grand, elongated piano in the avant garde intro to "Last Night I Dreamt..." and more than a little of the pseudo Bond theme about them both.

Anyway, they're two of my favourite albums and I've harboured these thoughts for many years now! At the very least Strangeways... is something of the doomy little nephew to the more decadently wasted Aladdin Sane.

Yeah, the riffs sound sort of similar for about three seconds, and from there on it's Satan and Bertie Wooster respectively.

I still see ISSICF as fundamentally remote from Cracked Actor, but you make a point worth thinking about. Which I will. I think you're maybe stretching it a bit with the harmonica/brass thing, but I sort of see what you mean. They are two of my favorite albums too, and I'd love to make the connection.

cheers

 

[Happy Maudlin]

Influence is rarely that direct.

Anyway, Johnny Marr has said many times that one of his inspirations in The Smiths was Bo Diddley. If Marr was a fan of Diddley and other R&B artists, and was listening to them quite a bit during his days in The Smiths, then one way or another there is an R&B influence on The Smiths. As Marr said in 1997, about "How Soon Is Now", "I arrived at the studio with a demo of the whole thing, apart from the tremolo effect--though that was bound to surface on a Smiths track sooner or later, 'cos at that time I was playing Bo Diddley stuff everywhere I went". I don't know how influence gets more direct than that, unless you define "influence" as "sounding alike", which is too narrow. Perhaps Bono hears the "influence" because he understands how artists borrow from their inspirations, in which case I would use his definition.

I usually don't like influences to be so explicit. I just did not realized how densely layered Johnny Marr's guitar work was, both in the figurative and the literal sense. But I am not a musician, so I don't know the techniques used. And I don't know the information either. I was looking at The Smiths musical background as superficially devoid of rhythm and blues influences or "whiter than white" as Britannica online states, (though I know they must have been influenced by some rockabilly or earlier forms of rock-n-roll). And I think other Smiths fans have made the same mistake. The quote leaves an impression on me...and it also allows me to see the deep-rooted irony for Morrissey's disdain of dance and R&B influenced music in the 1980s.

I believe Bono's comment seemed far-fetched at the beginning, but I with this information I see his rationale behind making such a statement. It takes a while for everything to connect but I get the general idea. Thank you .

 

[Nikita]

and there's something of "Lady Grinning Soul"'s grand, elongated piano in the avant garde intro to "Last Night I Dreamt..." and more than a little of the pseudo Bond theme about them both.

The end of Last Night I Dreamt is obviously influenced by Bowie's singing Wild is the Wind.

 

[murder and desire]

Well, Bono has said some insightful things about the Smiths. No immediate or obvious path leading from The Jean Genie to the Smiths presents itself to me, but I suppose he must be talking about the guitar. That swaggering riff could perhaps be likened somewhat to what they're doing in Sheila take a Bow, or Panic?

cheers

Well,
The Jean Genie is also a play on words regarding the fantastic, Jean Genet.
Lots of Bowie reference points Morrissey soaked in- as well as stealing a line from kooks, "throw your home work onto the fire".
I would say he meant in a poetic, gender play sense and in world view sense.
Though who knows what Bono goes on about. It could have been a record Morrissey told Bono he likes.
The Smiths may not of been R'n"B fans (who is?) but they were into soul and funk.

 

[Qvist]

Well,
The Jean Genie is also a play on words regarding the fantastic, Jean Genet.
Lots of Bowie reference points Morrissey soaked in- as well as stealing a line from kooks, "throw your home work onto the fire".
I would say he meant in a poetic, gender play sense and in world view sense.
Though who knows what Bono goes on about. It could have been a record Morrissey told Bono he likes.
The Smiths may not of been R'n"B fans (who is?) but they were into soul and funk.

Yes, but Bono is talking about how the Smiths "started right there". That was hardly either Jean Genet or Kooks. I agree with the soul/funk element in the Smiths (such as the bassline in William, or all of You've got everything now which is nearly jazzy), but again, that hardly comes from TJG?

cheers

 

[murder and desire]

Yes, but Bono is talking about how the Smiths "started right there". That was hardly either Jean Genet or Kooks. I agree with the soul/funk element in the Smiths (such as the bassline in William, or all of You've got everything now which is nearly jazzy), but again, that hardly comes from TJG?

cheers

I'm just guessing as to what Bono meant, as I say maybe a world view?

 

[Orson Swells]

I'm just guessing as to what Bono meant, as I say maybe a world view?

Yes. While I don't agree with the simplistic view attributed to Mr Bono, I think he means the fusing of a Genet-like lyrical sensibility with a "rock n roll" musical backing. He's wrong, of course, but he probably means something like that.

 

[murder and desire]

Yes. While I don't agree with the simplistic view attributed to Mr Bono, I think he means the fusing of a Genet-like lyrical sensibility with a "rock n roll" musical backing. He's wrong, of course, but he probably means something like that.

Swells are you accusing me of being simplistic or Bono?

 

[Happy Maudlin]

I think Swells means Bono.

 

[Worm]

Yes, but Bono is talking about how the Smiths "started right there". That was hardly either Jean Genet or Kooks. I agree with the soul/funk element in the Smiths (such as the bassline in William, or all of You've got everything now which is nearly jazzy), but again, that hardly comes from TJG?

cheers

The trouble for us is that we're living in a world with both The Smiths and David Bowie in it. Any comparison is bound to seem inapt. We have to imagine what it was like in a world before The Smiths, in which Morrissey and Marr were just teenagers listening to their favorite records. It's probably much easier for a man of Bono's age-- a contemporary of Morrissey's-- to pick out influences and progenitors. Links that seem obvious to them may not seem so to us.

As an example, on the web you can find Johnny Marr talking about how Del Shannon's "The Answer To Everything" influenced him on "Please Please Please". I'll be damned if I can hear the connection.

 

[Orson Swells]

Swells are you accusing me of being simplistic or Bono?

Bono, of course!