TTY: New Morrissey T-shirt

- OLink from an anonymous person:

New Morrissey T-shirt - true-to-you.net
15 March 2017

39758_baldwin_tshirt.jpg


Available at forthcoming Morrissey shows in North America.
Also available on Mporium.


Media coverage:


Related item:
 
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P

please stand up

Guest
They wouldn't be the first ones to think Morrissey posts here. His manager has posted here and band members so why not?
 

No1uno

Member of the Month™
Subscriber
They wouldn't be the first ones to think Morrissey posts here. His manager has posted here and band members so why not?

He's probably on my ignore list.
 

Ketamine Sun

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More quality 'journalism':
"On Morrissey's fan website, where the singer sometimes posts, fans were divided over the shirt, with some not being able to see the problem. Others, however, were offended. One anonymous poster wrote: "Imagining Morrissey attempting to explain why he feels 'Black on the inside' within this context is so laughably tone-deaf, it further proves that his racial naivete knows no bounds and that once again must be without a manager."

Come on, own up: which one of you is Morrissey!?

Oh, and congratulations to 'Anon' IP Hash: 921ac00130 for being quoted by The Telegraph.

Article 22nd, March, 2017:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/music/news/morrissey-takes-t-shirt-offsale-accusations-racism/

'On Morrissey's fan website' I didn't know this was Morrissey's website ?:lbf: Yes, journalism at it's finest ! checking and rechecking their 'facts'.


Also... see they quoted a negative comment from this site... but see how they did not quote a positive comment from this site/thread. But nooooo they wouldn't be interested... IN THAT. Idiots.


'HATE-IN-A-HURRY'
 
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No1uno

Member of the Month™
Subscriber
I know, what will I ever do.
 

rifke

bodhisattva
to me, it's obvious that this t-shirt is a play on words (ie. that the word "black" in both clauses could be taken to mean any number of things in a variety of combinations, and not merely the blackness of a mood), because:
1) it's morrissey, and he seems to have a fondness for dumb plays on words
2) it's a t-shirt, and dumb plays on words are exactly the kind of things you expect to find on t-shirts, especially ones where old song lyrics are repurposed and given a new twist by a new picture pairing, of which a direct connection between the picture and a word from the song lyric can be made-- and since it's a t-shirt and not an intellectual text, one expects the immediate connection to be the one they had in mind when designing it.

for the record, i dont think it's inherently racist nor do i think morrissey is a racist, but i do think he was negligent in allowing it to be seen as racist by some people, which according to some people--not me--might be the same thing as being racist.
 

Ketamine Sun

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to me, it's obvious that this t-shirt is a play on words (ie. that the word "black" in both clauses could be taken to mean any number of things in a variety of combinations, and not merely the blackness of a mood), because:
1) it's morrissey, and he seems to have a fondness for dumb plays on words
2) it's a t-shirt, and dumb plays on words are exactly the kind of things you expect to find on t-shirts, especially ones where old song lyrics are repurposed and given a new twist by a new picture pairing, of which a direct connection between the picture and a word from the song lyric can be made-- and since it's a t-shirt and not an intellectual text, one expects the immediate connection to be the one they had in mind when designing it.

for the record, i dont think it's inherently racist nor do i think morrissey is a racist, but i do think he was negligent in allowing it to be seen as racist by some people, which according to some people--not me--might be the same thing as being racist.

'lyrics are repurposed' To us, yes we can call them 'repurposed', but to him this is what they have always meant, since I believe with this shirt and once in Autobiography(?) he is stating what these words mean/meant to him.

'but i do think he was negligent in allowing it to be seen as racist by some people'

Agree, but M is not one to go around explaining himself, even if he made a statement on TTY it would not change anyone's mind about his reason for the shirt. And the 'news' media will always look for someone or something to hate.

I think the biggest mistake was to pull the shirt from sales.
 
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rifke

bodhisattva
'lyrics are repurposed' To us, yes we can call them 'repurposed', but to him this is what they have always meant, since I believe with this shirt and once in Autobiography(?) he is stating what these words mean/meant to him.

'but i do think he was negligent in allowing it to be seen as racist by some people'

Agree, but M is not one to go around explaining himself, even if he made a statement on TTY it would not change anyone's mind about his reason for the shirt. And the 'news' media will always look for someone or something to hate.

I think the biggest mistake was to pull the shirt from sales.
i think the problem here is the fact that it's a t-shirt. t-shirt messages invite much too casual and direct interpretations. im not looking at the shirt as "how did morrissey mean it?", in which case it becomes quite clear that he didnt intend to be racist. im looking at it as "how will it be interpreted on the street, esepcially by someone who may not even know who morrissey is?".
i know morrissey doesnt explain himself, and its part of his charm, but if that's the case maybe he should steer clear of sticking things on t-shirts that could have racist interpretations since when it comes to racism more responsibility and more care needs to be taken to move beyond "what did I mean by this?" --since whats going on in morrisseys head isnt really all that revelant to racial issues in the world today--to--what is actually revelant-- "how is this going to be perceived by a large group of people? will it potentially offend someone" .
 
D

Dr Phil

Guest
Disagreements between the Mozbots? This t-shirt really has had serious repercussions.
 

Ketamine Sun

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i think the problem here is the fact that it's a t-shirt. t-shirt messages invite much too casual and direct interpretations. im not looking at the shirt as "how did morrissey mean it?", in which case it becomes quite clear that he didnt intend to be racist. im looking at it as "how will it be interpreted on the street, esepcially by someone who may not even know who morrissey is?".
i know morrissey doesnt explain himself, and its part of his charm, but if that's the case maybe he should steer clear of sticking things on t-shirts that could have racist interpretations since when it comes to racism more responsibility and more care needs to be taken to move beyond "what did I mean by this?" --since whats going on in morrisseys head isnt really all that revelant to racial issues in the world today--to--what is actually revelant-- "how is this going to be perceived by a large group of people? will it potentially offend someone" .

'the problem here is the fact that it's a t-shirt. t-shirt messages invite much too casual and direct interpretations. im not looking at the shirt as "how did morrissey mean it?", in which case it becomes quite clear that he didnt intend to be racist. im looking at it as "how will it be interpreted on the street, esepcially by someone who may not even know who morrissey is?" :thumb:

yes, definitely, agree. Guess I'm just thinking in the context of this thread and people stuck on their dearly held interpretation of what the lyric means to them and how I believe that causes conflict in what it means to M. Yes, a t-shirt is no place to be poetic about that subject.

p.s. Dr Phil/ advice animal/judge judy/monkey see/truth, etc ... go to hell. ;)
 

Quando quando quando

Well-Known Member
Disagreements between the Mozbots? This t-shirt really has had serious repercussions.

Like what?
And if there are, are they any different from the ones he always had? Do you really think he gives a shit about those?
I can't see any racism in this T-shirt.
I think he laughs about it.
Don't know if it was actually available on Mporium before it was retracted.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
i think the problem here is the fact that it's a t-shirt. t-shirt messages invite much too casual and direct interpretations. im not looking at the shirt as "how did morrissey mean it?", in which case it becomes quite clear that he didnt intend to be racist. im looking at it as "how will it be interpreted on the street, esepcially by someone who may not even know who morrissey is?".
i know morrissey doesnt explain himself, and its part of his charm, but if that's the case maybe he should steer clear of sticking things on t-shirts that could have racist interpretations since when it comes to racism more responsibility and more care needs to be taken to move beyond "what did I mean by this?" --since whats going on in morrisseys head isnt really all that revelant to racial issues in the world today--to--what is actually revelant-- "how is this going to be perceived by a large group of people? will it potentially offend someone" .

I think if someone didn't know morrissey they'd probably think the black man on the shirt said or wrote the line who they also probably wouldn't know. Honestly I think the idea of censoring a vague statement with no immediate incendiary language, no racial hate language etc that could seriously more likely be misinterpreted, would be against the ideas of mr Baldwin on the role of an artist. More likely when said possible offense relies almost entirely on the projection of the viewer. What are your thoughts on the patti smith song. Was it a mistake. The Lou reed song I wanna be black
 

bun bun

baklava
The discussion is moving into "how can it be racist if I like their race" territory.

No, the t shirt is not racist as in "somebody throw him a banana" racist, but it's one big

facepalm-polar-bear.jpg


from a privileged white humasexual pop star. James Baldwin couldn’t take off his blackness in the evening (somebody should tell Morrissey that blackness is not a costume). A black person doesn’t have to ‘feel’ black inside or out, they are black whatever they feel. He is likening his own being miserable to James Baldwin’s experience of racism and homophobia and quest for acceptance. It’s incredibly bad judgement and insensitive.
 
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Ketamine Sun

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I want to be black
Have natural rhythm
Shoot twenty feet of jism, too
And f*** up Jews
I want to be black
I want to be a Panther

Have a girlfriend named Samantha
And have a stable of foxy whores
Oh I want to be black

I don't want to be a f***ed up, middle class,
College student anymore
I just want to have a stable of foxy little whores
Yeah, yeah I want to be black

I want to be black
I want to be like Martin Luther King
And get myself shot in spring
And lead a whole generation too
And f*** up the Jews

I want to be black, I want to be like Malcolm X
And cast a hex over President Kennedy's tomb
And have a big prick, too

I don't want to be a f***ed up, middle class,
College student anymore
I just want to have a stable of foxy little whores
Yeah, yeah I want to be black


live & different version, long intro, Lou comes in around 3:30

 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I think the shirt shows the over sensitivity growing to any mention or comment on race by someone not of that race. The open casket controversy, a painting of emmitt till in his casket, is another example of this. I think the shirt shows the idea that some people put a lot of emphasis on race and project a lot of racial guilt and it's not always helpful to the conversation especially when outrage is used to self define. In this case it didn't seem like the conversation was is the shirt racist but rather the assumption that it is when it's meaning is honestly super vauge or obscure like a lot of morrissey statements.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
The shirts message is to vague to see anything other than what you want to. Maybe the meaning of the shirt is to say I'm made to feel black simply because my skin is black and can't take it off and thus find it hard to shake the feeling. I'm reduced to skin color and can only be viewed in that context. Also privilege doesn't exclude empathy for someone. Sure complete understanding isn't gonna happen but I don't need it to generally understand another's position and to empathize with it just like all the privileged people here who are defending the black community from the racist things they see in the shirt. Despite who's right or wrong privilege shouldn't be some litmus test to being able to empathize or offer an opinion or to have at least some understanding of another predicament
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I note Chuck Berry failed to get a celebrity death statement from our Steve :(

Benny-the-British-Butcher :greatbritain::knife:
 

Morrissey-so-old.com

If your reading this your an idiot.
I don't believe the shirt is being racist or has that intention but here is a question for the people who are saying this shirt isn't racist would you wear this shirt in area full of black people would you walk into a room full of black folks wearing this shirt and be confident no one is gonna give you dirty looks or wanna beat you down, and please spare me the pathetic yes answer because we know in real life it is a no. Just because you don't find it offensive because it's a Morrissey shirt and know the contexts of the lyrics doesn't mean that a person who is black who doesn't know Morrissey lyrics would, so unless your actual black person you have no idea how a black person feels.

I won't say the shirt is racist but I will say it is a bit insensitive and not much thinking went into it or consideration
 

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