What Happened to Morrissey? Part 2 - read on

[Jones]

Re: What happened to Morrissey? Discuss

What did he say?

I agree that Morrissey's new sense of comfort is shining through in his music, and that his focus has shifted more from universal themes to lawsuits, "t-shirts and promos, God knows". I also think he has lost a lot of his subtlety (or deliberately shed it). I don't see how anyone can claim that Morrissey has not changed in the last years...

I don't see how you can say that when none of the songs from the ROTT sessions deal with any of those subjects. They are all universal themes or else story telling.

 

[zither]

Re: What happened to Morrissey? Discuss

I don't know why most of you think Southpow and Maladjusted are that bad. i don't really know. I'd write for years about the magnificence of that albums. well, de gustibus...

 

[Reggie Kray]

Re: What happened to Morrissey? Discuss

YorkMoz...good post. I agree. All in all:

He changed with age, with the world, with his audience. He had two albums that were not as strong as others (Southpaw and Maladjusted) but he continues to touch on subject matter that is relevant. Some songs he sang then he would not need to emulate anymore, like 'Heaven Knows' and the like...he is an elderstatesman now, not immune to the changing world and his changing mind...

 

[dazzak]

Re: What happened to Morrissey? Discuss

None of this shitting trouble with the Pet Shop Boys.

 

[Young And Alive]

Re: What happened to Morrissey? Discuss

I don't know why most of you think Southpow and Maladjusted are that bad. i don't really know. I'd write for years about the magnificence of that albums. well, de gustibus...

I'm the only Moz fan I know who likes Roy's Keen!

 

[That's Enough For Me]

Re: What happened to Morrissey? Discuss

I'm the only Moz fan I know who likes Roy's Keen!

You're also the only Moz fan I knw that likes it as well!! =)


To refer to the comparison that another poster made between IDMIYFGM & UTBASB V. FOTGTD & LIAP for me this strengthens my point.

Musically maybe they are not as strong but I don't mind if you forget me has a real sting in the tail and the 'rejection is one thing' hook which is stronger than any of the others mentioned. Used To Be A Sweet boy discusses, for the first time, his almost non-existant relationship with his father, a wonderfully sad interlude. Mercylessly wistful and poignant.

I've already mentioned that I don't care for FOTGTD and Life Is A Pigsty as the opening line says is 'The Same Old SOS' . I think we're only raving over that song on ROTT because it stands out SO much. Had it have sat on Your Arsenal for instance, it would pale against a similarly themed but vastly superior 'Seasick Yet Still Docked'

As I say though, neither one of us is right or wrong because music is subjective and as one poster brilliantly wrote a while ago, 50% of what you hear is in your own head anyway, which I agree with.

 

[lilybett]

Re: What happened to Morrissey? Discuss

The Edge, Coldplay's Jonny Buckland.

Haha. Ahhhh hahahaha. Well this proved pretty unquestionably you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[WhatSheSaid]

Re: What happened to Morrissey? Discuss

I agree with That's enough for me.
I think ROTT is boring, the lyrics aren't clever anymore, in fact they are embarrassing to listen to.
A friend who is not a fan said to me, he's just a club turn now, which I disagreed with but perhaps it's true.

 

[Ticker]

Re: What happened to Morrissey? Discuss

That's Enough For Me - What a fantastic post, I agree with you 100%.
Glad as i am that the new albums have been well received, they say nothing to me on a personal level.

The Smiths, and Morrisseys earlier solo albums, stimulated and affected my emotions. I felt i could relate to the music like nothing i had ever heard before (or since). He was singing directly to me, and about me.
I think many fans, both old and new, are drawn to him for this reason.

I find myself simply 'appreciating' the new stuff, and it makes me feel like i have lost something. Something important.

This is purely my opinion - i'm glad that others like the new albums. I just wish i could say i felt the same. It's not through lack of trying....

 

[Worm]

Re: What happened to Morrissey? Discuss

Name me another artist who achieved greatness after one debut album and still retained that level of brilliance 23 years into his career. You can't. There isn't one. But older artists can solidify and strengthen their previous work, and this is why Morrissey's newer songs are fantastic. Taken as a whole, it's as impressive a body of songwriting as anyone has ever achieved. Maybe it's a failing that you have to listen to the newer stuff in the context of the older, but, again, what he's doing is damn near unparalleled in pop history. There's a lot more to celebrate than to denigrate.

The key question is, do Morrissey's songs tell the truth about his life and experiences when he wrote them? Yes, they do. His life and experiences have simply changed-- and the very fact of this change is wonderful. I don't like songs about judges and journalists anymore than you do, but can you imagine if he were 47 and singing about Whalley Range?

 

[ANGELES!]

Re: What happened to Morrissey? Discuss

Quote:

Originally posted by draize train:

"I agree that Morrissey's new sense of comfort is shining through in his music, and that his focus has shifted more from universal themes to lawsuits, "t-shirts and promos, God knows". I also think he has lost a lot of his subtlety (or deliberately shed it). I don't see how anyone can claim that Morrissey has not changed in the last years..."


Well Morrissey has changed - who is denying that in the above posts???

Moz does appear to be happier of late (At Last I am Born etc). It is well documented that Moz has suffered severe bouts of depression in his life. If this debilitating illness is behind him I, for one, am very happy about this! I get the impression from your post (And even more so from That's Enough for Me) that you would rather that he was, for want of a better phrase, still ill. If this is true, exactly what kind of person does this make you?

You see, I think this argument is predicated on the mistaken belief that an artist must be suffering to produce worthwhile art. This is absolute nonsense. Much great art can be the product of happiness, good mental health etc. Morrissey has produced sublime music - and poignant lyrics - when he has been depressed, and when he has been (seemingly) content. The idea that all great artists have to live a life of permanent torment is ludicrous. Yes, Morrissey is a rich man nowadays. Some "fans" seem to resent him for this. For Christ's sake, have you ever wondered why he is a millionaire? We bought every one of his f***ing CD's! Good luck to him, I say.

Now to the issue of lyrics. It does annoy me when so called fans criticise Quarry for being dominated by lyrics about lawsuits, judges etc. Exactly how many songs on the Quarry sessions are these critics referring to - 2 out of about 30 songs in total? (How can anybody? You know I couldn't last) Something like that anyway....he does sing about other things too, you know ........including the "universal themes" with "emotion" that you suggest were only a feature of his earlier work. Quarry and Ringleader are both replete with songs that deal with themes such as sex, love, loss, death, hope, hopelessness, despair, re-birth etc. If you don't know this, what do you know???

And now on to the other peculiar poster who started this debate...

Originally posted by That's Enough for me

"It's all about opinions and everybody has one. From my point of view then, put the weakest work of Viva - Vauxhall against the strongest since and I honestly think that Viva-Vauxhall wins, it carried such emotion with it"


Well of course this is all about personal opinion. But I thought I would put your theory to the test.

Arguably, the weakest on Viva-Vauxhall could be, say...."I don't mind if you forget me" and "Used to be a Sweet Boy"

Arguably, the strongest on Quarry-Ringleader could be, say....."First of the Gang" and "Pigsty"

And you would say that the first two songs are superior? Well, i respect your opinion mate, although I think it is a very peculiar one.

TO SUMMARISE: The vast majority of posters recognise and welcome the fact that Moz has changed. What hasn't changed is the fact that he remains a genius who still produces top quality music and lyrics.

I'm not trolling you mate, but:

YOU ARE A c***

Ask me why, and I will tell you point by point.

 

[draize_train]

Re: What happened to Morrissey? Discuss

Quote:Well Morrissey has changed - who is denying that in the above posts???

First of all I'm impressed how much you got out of my five short lines. I never accused anyone of denying the fact that Morrissey changed. I was merely implying that change is not always for the better. I don't know how you get the impression from my post that I want Morrissey to be depressed. I never even mentioned depression, I said his sense of comfort is shining through, and that is a positive aspect of his newer work for me. I am not a malevolent person. Neither am I a "so-called fan" just because I have the audacity to suggest that Morrissey's work is not perfect.

You see, I think this argument is predicated on the mistaken belief that an artist must be suffering to produce worthwhile art.

It is not. Stop over-reacting.

 

[lukehart]

It seems I've come in for a bit of a tongue lashing for mentioning The Edge and Jonny Buckland. Well you may not like their wanker singers Bono and Chris Martin but excuse me but both The Edge and Jonny are fine musicians and songwriters. Imagine Morrissey singing his own lyrics to the tune of Coldplay's "God put a smile upon your face" Go on, admit it you'd love it. The Edge is an innovative guitarist and comes up with the most wonderful sounds, listen to his playing without Bono's voice - I think Morrissey would do very well over that. Secondly I have not tired of Morrissey's voice or lyrics - it's the music. There's no catchy riffs like that of "The more you ignore me the closer I get" or the soaring magic of "The teachers are afraid of the pupils" or a beautiful lilting ballad like "Seasick, yet still docked". That's why I said Whyte and Boorer have to go, because musically, actually no, melodically they just don't have the great tunes like before. So crucify me if you must but I like The Edge's guitar playing and U2 would be nothing without him and Jonny Buckland's guitar greatness is only just beginning. Instead of slagging them off what guitarists would you recommend? And don't say Johnny Marr, we all know he's not coming back

 

[kingdai]

I may be in for a slating here but i reckon the "rockabilly" fools he works with are well below par

 

[kingdai]

Re: What happened to Morrissey? Discuss

I just signed into this forum just to get this off my chest. I love Morrissey, he was a God when he was in The Smiths and from Viva Hate to Maladjusted and all the b-side rarities albums too, I thought his solo career was really good too. A bit patchy with Southpaw Grammar and Maladjusted but most of those two albums were good with only a couple of lame ducks. He then went away for 7 years and I thought "Oh wow, 7 years away he must have really taken the time out to write the best album of his career". The hype of his return seemed to confirm this. But YATQ was dull, so repetitive was his lyrics and the songs all seemed to drag on as he crooned. Then ROTT was announced, Tony Visconti producing and Moz had left L.A - finally could this be his great return? Alas no. Sure it was better than YATQ but not by much. So what's happened to our beloved Morrissey? Feel free to discuss but my 2 cents is Moz needs to get rid of Alan Whyte and Boz Boorer and bring in younger fresher songwriters, maybe get special guests in - The Edge, Coldplay's Jonny Buckland. Personally I'd love to see Echo and the Bunnymen's Will Sergeant team up with him, especially after Echo's great album of last year "Siberia". Moz needs to rock out more, not so many droopy ballads next time. P.S don't bash me when replying, I love Morrissey but I just think he can do better, he needs to make another Vauxhall & I. Quite frankly I think alot of Morrissey fans deep down agree with me.

truth sir!

 

[lukehart]

I may be in for a slating here but i reckon the "rockabilly" fools he works with are well below par

Thank you! that's exactly what I'm trying to get at - they're lacklustre songwriting is below Morrissey's talents. Don't get me wrong Whyte and Boorer wrote some great songs including b-sides, I mean they're responsible for my favourite Morrissey album "Vauxhall and I" and I love them for that BUT as of late their songwriting isn't up to what it once was. I'm not criticizing Morrissey - I still love him, but Alain and Boz's melodies all seem to sound the same, like they're repeating the same tune. Morrissey needs new blood in his band - or old experienced but still vital blood in his band.

 

[thaxter tewksbury]

I might agree with you in the fact that any guitarist and/or writing partner in moz' solo years is no Johnny Marr but come on. The edge? The guy knows one riff. Coldplay? I agree with Moz when he called them elevator music. The edge? You gotta be kidding.

 

[King Leer]

Re: What happened to Morrissey? Discuss

Name me another artist who achieved greatness after one debut album and still retained that level of brilliance 23 years into his career. You can't. There isn't one. But older artists can solidify and strengthen their previous work, and this is why Morrissey's newer songs are fantastic. Taken as a whole, it's as impressive a body of songwriting as anyone has ever achieved. Maybe it's a failing that you have to listen to the newer stuff in the context of the older, but, again, what he's doing is damn near unparalleled in pop history. There's a lot more to celebrate than to denigrate.

The key question is, do Morrissey's songs tell the truth about his life and experiences when he wrote them? Yes, they do. His life and experiences have simply changed-- and the very fact of this change is wonderful. I don't like songs about judges and journalists anymore than you do, but can you imagine if he were 47 and singing about Whalley Range?

Brilliant post -- you took the mouth right out of my words.

 

[Theo]

Why do you need a Part 2, you egotistical bastard.

Morrissey brought in a new guitarist but unfortunately it was just Jesse Tobias.

 

[Queen Victoria]

I wouldn't call Jesse Tobias "new" at all. He's just a shell, a weak imitator of Alain Whyte (not exactly someone to aspire to be...).

Morrissey needs someone with IDEAS. That's the important thing.

I D E A S.