Where is the Lyrical Depth?

Nope - I'd say the chances are (judging by all the references to money-men, civil servants etc) it's more about the very literal alleged hounding of his family by the courts when he lost the court case.

Soooooooo, what do you think Morrissey's mom (Elizabeth?) did exactly that would make he and some other people run to her and "lie down" beside her? :confused: C'mon dizzywhore, use your imagination, the lyrics are not literal.
 
Soooooooo, what do you think Morrissey's mom (Elizabeth?) did exactly that would make he and some other people run to her and "lie down" beside her? :confused: C'mon dizzywhore, use your imagination, the lyrics are not literal.

Maybe not, but I don't think there is anything in there to suggest it's about Going Green ('Methane Is Murder', anyone?) either.

I'm all for using my imagination but sometimes it doesn't work.

I'd love to know the deeper meaning of 'You Only Tell Me You Love Me When You're Drunk' by the Pet Shop Boys if you get a chance?
 
It's not about his actual mum. Thanks for that.

But I think the narrative of the song is more or less literal, although used to explore a number of ideas. I think the subject of the song is an interesting continuation of a theme that's persisted throughout his work - it instantly reminded me of 'Mother, I can feel the soil falling over my head.' There's always been an association between Mother and Suffocation/Death ('Smother me mother'), hated and embraced. Remember he always 'ran back to Ma' on all his albums.

People have complained about a lack of empathy but this lyric is an expression of really powerful love and sympathy for someone who has been driven to exhaustion by a world unsuited to them (see Oscar Wilde, James Dean) but the song's narrator feels an inescapable, suffocating affinity with, and a rash, childish-adolescant, protective, passionate Hand-in-Glove love for ('I will slit their throats for you'). I think the end of the song is a fine example of that old Morrissey trick of making what is intensely personal, universal, and creating that 'Shoplifers of the World' unity, seige-mentality (We're gonna run to you, we're gonna come to you) while at the same time making the filial, almost sexual: 'We're gonna lie down beside you Mama.'

As a whole, it seems like a half-remembered expression of a child's emotions, which is illustrated in the wording of the title, the past tense and the use of the diminutive 'Mama', but tinged with an acquired bitterness at the 'lonely' world he has experienced 'here without you', berating the 'pigs in grey suits' ('policewomen, policemen, silly women, taxmen'), perhaps expressing a projected anger for an absent yet idolised mother figure.

It's a f***ing great song.
 
I'd love to know the deeper meaning of 'You Only Tell Me You Love Me When You're Drunk' by the Pet Shop Boys if you get a chance?

Morrissey is not The Pet Shop Boys.

It's not about his actual mum. Thanks for that.

But I think the narrative of the song is more or less literal, although used to explore a number of ideas. I think the subject of the song is an interesting continuation of a theme that's persisted throughout his work - it instantly reminded me of 'Mother, I can feel the soil falling over my head.' There's always been an association between Mother and Suffocation/Death ('Smother me mother'), hated and embraced. Remember he always 'ran back to Ma' on all his albums.

People have complained about a lack of empathy but this lyric is an expression of really powerful love and sympathy for someone who has been driven to exhaustion by a world unsuited to them (see Oscar Wilde, James Dean) but the song's narrator feels an inescapable, suffocating affinity with, and a rash, childish-adolescant, protective, passionate Hand-in-Glove love for ('I will slit their throats for you'). I think the end of the song is a fine example of that old Morrissey trick of making what is intensely personal, universal, and creating that 'Shoplifers of the World' unity, seige-mentality (We're gonna run to you, we're gonna come to you) while at the same time making the filial, almost sexual: 'We're gonna lie down beside you Mama.'

As a whole, it seems like a half-remembered expression of a child's emotions, which is illustrated in the wording of the title, the past tense and the use of the diminutive 'Mama', but tinged with an acquired bitterness at the 'lonely' world he has experienced 'here without you', berating the 'pigs in grey suits' ('policewomen, policemen, silly women, taxmen'), perhaps expressing a projected anger for an absent yet idolised mother figure.

It's a f***ing great song.

You nailed it.
 
Morrissey is not The Pet Shop Boys.

You nailed it.

Morrissey is also not the only person capable of clever, complex lyrics :rolleyes:

I'd also argue that the PSB have achieved what Morrissey always failed to do - writing clever, involving, funny, smart songs with a pop sensibility and being successful and appealing to a 'pop' audience.
I think even in The Smiths they were always too indie.

Now, that's not a bad thing, and I'd like to state I adore Morrissey, but he's not beyond a dud song now and then ;)
 
I'd just like to point out I don't think it is a literal re-telling of what happened to his Mum, but that's a more likely inspiration than the Mother Earth school of thought.

I think it is a very literal song, it is about exactly what it says it is.

Mmmmmm. I bet Something is Squeezing My Skull is about a hat that doesn't fit properly.
 

Yeah, I got to thinking about it and that does actually make sense. :D Kind of like Cinderella and her shoes, but with hats. :p
 
Mmmmmm. I bet Something is Squeezing My Skull is about a hat that doesn't fit properly.

I'm not saying Morrissey can't write lyrics with dual meanings, I'm saying 'Mama...' is not one an example of one of them.
I honestly can't believe I'm the only person who sees NO strong connection to 'Mother Earth' in this song?

As for 'Skull...' I'd say it's a pretty literal song too. He mentions drugs prescribed for depression and the like by name.
Although, if we look hard enough, I bet it's really about globalization ;)
 
Hi Vaux. It's me again.

Okay, so you say the album lacks "lyrical depth," yet your argument seems to lament that there are no witty insights or easily quotable one liners, etc..

To me this album is the epitome of lyrical depth. For example, Mama Lay Softly on the Riverbed questions why a "mother" or someone named mama would do something perhaps unsavory, then resolves to defend said person from the people who pushed her into doing it, not placing blame on her for doing it, but recognizing the same temptation in himself and empathizing with the situation with the resolve to protect her from future attack. This "mama" is no doubt MOTHER EARTH herself, for the goal is to lie down beside her (in his grave in the EARTH) and be sheltered with her. He alludes to kissing her as well, much like a man praying to heaven kisses the ground like a sun salutation in yoga. And who is this we? Is Morrissey the voice of many who seek to bond and be connected with the safety of Mother Earth? He's onto something here. I just caution you not to discount the lyrical depth while looking for witty one liners when the fabric of an awakening is right in front of your eyes, though perhaps it's foolish of me to cast pearls before swine, but I'm eager to hear your opinion. :)

The mother has left her children, which means she was beyond desperate. You have no idea what a woman will endure to avoid hurting her children. Then again, perhaps you do. I don't know.

Mmmmmm. I bet Something is Squeezing My Skull is about a hat that doesn't fit properly.

No, a wig. ;) Trust me, I know from wigs.

And in answer to the original question: It's there. Don't forget, these are brand new to us. All the old Smiths lyrics are 25+ years old, we've had all that time to disentangle them. I still keep coming across references that could have been influences, there are entire sites devoted to tracking them.
 
I'm not saying Morrissey can't write lyrics with dual meanings, I'm saying 'Mama...' is not one an example of one of them.
I honestly can't believe I'm the only person who sees NO strong connection to 'Mother Earth' in this song?

As for 'Skull...' I'd say it's a pretty literal song too. He mentions drugs prescribed for depression and the like by name.
Although, if we look hard enough, I bet it's really about globalization ;)

You are not the only one who sees zero connection to "mother earth."

I think it's pretty literal - sung in the voice of the dead mother's bewildered children left alone. I think there's sympathy for the mother but the fact that it's in the voice of the children talking about killing themselves to be with her again makes it sound accusatory towards the mother as well. It's unspoken, but the very first time I heard it I felt like there was a hint of "look what you've done" towards the mother.
 
Although, if we look hard enough, I bet it's really about globalization ;)

I think what I'm failing to communicate is that Mother Earth is not necessarily "the earth." She's a person. Who's head tilts at the same axis as the earth. Who holds a baby. Do you see where I'm going with this?
 
Yeah, I got to thinking about it and that does actually make sense. :D Kind of like Cinderella and her shoes, but with hats. :p
this works for me on many levels
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i once had a hat so tight it gave me migraines :eek:
and recently i have taken up a habit(when drunk) of placing my hat on the heads of girls i like just to see what it looks like :o
sometimes i 4get to get them back and the hats are gone 4ever :tears:
but the one that brings my hat back, her i might marry :guitar:
 
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