Morrissey Central "YOUR VACCINATION:" (October 27, 2021)

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Trans

Guest
I think Karenina was speaking in general terms, and in general terms she (?) was correct, I think.

Maybe as of course who can say definitively but I don’t see the stark wealth divide of the working class vs middle class affluent class when it comes to the far right and anti vaxers. I don’t think money has nearly as much to do with it or age as people assert
 
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Trans

Guest
I think Karenina was speaking in general terms, and in general terms she (?) was correct, I think.

Maybe as of course who can say definitively but I don’t see the stark wealth divide of the working class vs middle class affluent class when it comes to the far right and anti vaxers. I don’t think money has nearly as much to do with it or age as people assert
 

bhops

Last of the famous international screw ups.
If that really is the case, then why does it seem that most of these people are right-leaning?
Because I think as a whole we have seen a weird reversal in ideological roles in the past few years. Conservatives have become more freedom loving, libertarian and standing up for individual rights while many on the mainstream left have bizarrely fallen in love with wanting to stifle free speech, cheer on the FBI and the embrace of stricter govt controls.

I think most on the Right don't object to the vaccine much moreso the mandates, although I except that you do get the really radical sorts that talk about nanochips and 5G etc etc.

You do have some on the Progressive side of the Left like Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibi, Jimmy Dore, Whitney Webb etc who stand for more personal freedoms and liberty but they have sustained massive attacks form the mainstream Left in doing so.

BUT you have to add into the mix the effect of the MSM who politicized this very quickly. let's put it this way, if Trump had won re-election you can bet every dollar you own that the MSM would be hunting down every adverse reaction to the vaccine they could find and headlining it. The entire narrative around vaccines would change 180 degrees if Trump was still in the Whitehouse. That's the truth. Kamala and Joe were already showing hesitancy towards the vaccine before the election and no-one in the MSM was calling them out on it.
 

bhops

Last of the famous international screw ups.
This is actually untrue. Yes there is a large part of that demographic but there were plenty of people who stormed the capital for example who were wealthy and plenty of billionaires are funding and directing the anti vax movement. The idea that the far right is some working class movement is wrong. Richard Spencer who coined the term alt right has several degrees from good universities. Was getting his phd from duke before he left for a political career. He’s also a neo nazi currently on trial for the untie the right violence and leader of the neo nazi party. Steve bannon is super wealthy. What happened was that a lot of disparate far right groups started to feel threatened in a lot of ways due to demographics of all sorts from race to declining interest in religion etc and they all joined under one big tent of resentment. Policy isnt important, being cruel sowing disorder against people they hate is the point. Freedom means not having to do what the government say you have to do, saving America is forcing others to do what you say, big government is bad and regulations are conspiracy’s, government needs to take control of local school districts to protect freedom. It’s all just self serving resentment and most of America is so uninformed about how anything works, the Atlantic just ran an article about the dumbing down of America, that they’ll believe anything they want to. Even then facts don’t matter. Remember when trump said people should be able to use the bathroom they want to or when signed huge tax breaks for the wealthy. Nobody that doesn’t benefit from those policy’s really understands them or cares as long as he’s being as cruel as possible to the people they hate be they the elites people of color gay people non Christians etc. and in the midst of all this are politicians desperately trying to hold on to power at any cost
What's interesting about this entire analysis is that at the last election Donald Trump increased his overall numbers with women, Black Americans, Latino Americans but went backwards with one key demographic, white men.

Democrats overall are struggling with working class voters, their traditional base, how else would you explain the race in Virginia right now with McAulifffe going backwards and his campaign reduced to the rather desperate and frankly disgusting tactics that we saw on Saturday with their fake racist Tiki Torch standing outside Youngkin's bus? (Pro-tip, when you are sending fake racists to a smear job probably don't send a Black person, LOL.)

Add this to the fact that on November 6th Democrats actually had a rather dismal election with their base, they underperformed across the board except for Joe nabbing a miraculous 81 million votes, haw haw. Coming up to the midterms they really need to turn things around quickly or else they may take a hammering.

Not that any of this matters, it's all one big uniparty in Washington anyway and all of this Left/Right nonsense is but one big distraction.
 
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vegan cro spirit .777

Guest
This is actually untrue. Yes there is a large part of that demographic but there were plenty of people who stormed the capital for example who were wealthy and plenty of billionaires are funding and directing the anti vax movement. The idea that the far right is some working class movement is wrong. Richard Spencer who coined the term alt right has several degrees from good universities. Was getting his phd from duke before he left for a political career. He’s also a neo nazi currently on trial for the untie the right violence and leader of the neo nazi party. Steve bannon is super wealthy. What happened was that a lot of disparate far right groups started to feel threatened in a lot of ways due to demographics of all sorts from race to declining interest in religion etc and they all joined under one big tent of resentment. Policy isnt important, being cruel sowing disorder against people they hate is the point. Freedom means not having to do what the government say you have to do, saving America is forcing others to do what you say, big government is bad and regulations are conspiracy’s, government needs to take control of local school districts to protect freedom. It’s all just self serving resentment and most of America is so uninformed about how anything works, the Atlantic just ran an article about the dumbing down of America, that they’ll believe anything they want to. Even then facts don’t matter. Remember when trump said people should be able to use the bathroom they want to or when signed huge tax breaks for the wealthy. Nobody that doesn’t benefit from those policy’s really understands them or cares as long as he’s being as cruel as possible to the people they hate be they the elites people of color gay people non Christians etc. and in the midst of all this are politicians desperately trying to hold on to power at any cost
:rolleyes:

'policies'


thats exactly what happened:crazy:

:hammer:
 
D

Deleted member 28251

Guest
Sure. I was making a generalization based on my personal observations and experiences. Of course there are highly educated right-wingers, and working class left-wingers, but most working class people do skew conservative.

I think it's disingenuous and untrue to paint anyone anti-vax as far right. The only anti-vax people I personally know are extreme-vegan hispter types, or I dont know them well enough to tell, but not obviously right-wing. (Potentially could be influenced by right-wing family) Though maybe its a USA thing.
I'm not from the USA, and I have little interest or knowledge of it other than the douglas fir.

I might theorise that in the USA, which has a centre-left president, there is an additional incentive for the right-wing to oppose the governments sanctions.
In countries such as mine, with a conservative government, there could be a similar incentive for the left-wing to oppose the sanctions.

It's almost exclusively tradespeople protesting in my country - because they have to be vaccinated, or lose there jobs - because they couldn't work during lock-downs - Many of these people seem to skew conservative, but I don't think many of them have some large right-wing agenda. They simply want to work, and don't like being told they must be vaccinated in order to work. I don't personally know these people, so I couldn't tell you for certain. All the (admitedly few, and older than the average protester) tradespeople I know regard the protesters as idiots, despite being conservative themselves.

Wheras the left-wing hipster types I know that I refered to above have coasted through the whole thing because they transitioned easily into online work, and currently still are. I'm curious to see what happens when / if these people are asked to go back to the office, and if they will have to prove vaccination status.

I can't speak for the USA. But America is not the world. (and the USA is not America)
I think Gregor’s question could be reframed as ‘Why am I noticing a lot of people, who look to me like right-wing conservatives, in TV coverage of anti-vax demos?’ This might accept that not everyone whose against the vaccination is going out on the street to demonstrate their frustration.

Most people who are anti-vaccination are demonstrating their position by not getting the vaccine, but otherwise quietly carrying on.
 

Vex

Well-Known Member
Anyone come across this woman in their gig going years? She seems to have been involved in Oi at first.

But London-based organiser Vicky Pearson, reportedly a veteran of Britain’s neo-Nazi scene, has called off the event due to concerns of “adverse media attention and the likelihood that the US band members would be refused entry into this country.

If Mark Collett or a crony slipped in, I'm wondering when - 2016 or 2015 at the earliest, probably.

_89806824_6f8d7905-e8f3-40d8-a312-f26171c5f5e2.jpg
 

Ketamine Sun

HANG THEM HIGH VERONICA
Anyone come across this woman in their gig going years? She seems to have been involved in Oi at first.

But London-based organiser Vicky Pearson, reportedly a veteran of Britain’s neo-Nazi scene, has called off the event due to concerns of “adverse media attention and the likelihood that the US band members would be refused entry into this country.

If Mark Collett or a crony slipped in, I'm wondering when - 2016 or 2015 at the earliest, probably.

View attachment 77433

What dots are you trying to connect? just curious.

Sorry, just not getting it. What’s the quote from? And a picture of the woman would probably be better, if you’re trying to identify someone as a fan (?)

Let the right wing slip in ?
 

Vex

Well-Known Member
What dots are you trying to connect? just curious.

Sorry, just not getting it. What’s the quote from? And a picture of the woman would probably be better, if you’re trying to identify someone as a fan (?)

Let the right wing slip in ?

The quote's from a Hope Not Hate article - 🧐 at the Pearson, though it's Vicky not Valerie.

May as well check out if it's possible someone is in or sympathetic to Patriotic Alternative.

Some cocky wee fash on Twitter was boasting M was definitely on board - & they lie - but it sort of checks out. He's been repeating versions of their talking points - but not the core ideology.
 

Gregor Samsa

I straighten up, and my position is one of hope.
Thanks to all who participated in this discussion. It's not easy to get a clear-cut or unequivocal answer. In the EU Parliament, and various governments in the EU, those opposing the mandates and the vaccine are primarily far-right/right-wing populists. However, there seem to be some leftists opposing the mandates out there as well (just not the mainstream liberal left). It could do with class, maybe age, maybe education. Some say those opposed are freedom lovers (as if not everyone loves their individual freedom), some might say they're tinfoil hat-wearing crazies who erroneously believe that someone is after them and their freedom. Some might say the mandates are for the greater good.

I guess this is as far as we get.
 
D

Deleted member 28251

Guest
The quote's from a Hope Not Hate article - 🧐 at the Pearson, though it's Vicky not Valerie.

May as well check out if it's possible someone is in or sympathetic to Patriotic Alternative.

Some cocky wee fash on Twitter was boasting M was definitely on board - & they lie - but it sort of checks out. He's been repeating versions of their talking points - but not the core ideology.
In what ways are the general ‘talking points’ distinct from the wider political discourse, and why are they associable with Morrissey? Timely coincidences on Central?
 

Ketamine Sun

HANG THEM HIGH VERONICA
Vicky Pearson, on the right. 👇

View attachment 77435

I think I’ve seen her working the merch table, that’s how they start, and then slowly worm their way up
to infiltrate Morrissey’s mind with bad bad ideas. But I don’t see the FOX connection, maybe Tucker bloodlines ?

;)
 

Ketamine Sun

HANG THEM HIGH VERONICA
I think Gregor’s question could be reframed as ‘Why am I noticing a lot of people, who look to me like right-wing conservatives, in TV coverage of anti-vax demos?’ This might accept that not everyone whose against the vaccination is going out on the street to demonstrate their frustration.

Most people who are anti-vaccination are demonstrating their position by not getting the vaccine, but otherwise quietly carrying on.


Yep, ‘quietly carrying on’ is not very news worthy. So it’s no wonder why people would think that it’s only loud mouthed right wing protesters that are anti-vax.
 

Vex

Well-Known Member
In what ways are the general ‘talking points’ distinct from the wider political discourse, and why are they associable with Morrissey? Timely coincidences on Central?

Months of nothing - then shove in 2 videos of things PA are pushing right now, from 2 right-wing sources, neither of which he's mentioned watching, one of which he used to hate. Quick pivot to People Are The Same Everywhere, then 2 new demos as a distraction.

It could be something else - but it would explain all the discrepancies.
 

karenina

jammy Stressford poet
Months of nothing - then shove in 2 videos of things PA are pushing right now, from 2 right-wing sources, neither of which he's mentioned watching, one of which he used to hate. Quick pivot to People Are The Same Everywhere, then 2 new demos as a distraction.

It could be something else - but it would explain all the discrepancies.

And here was silly me, thinking that the vaccine post was to get attention before posting the new demos
 

Vex

Well-Known Member
I think I’ve seen her working the merch table, that’s how they start, and then slowly worm their way up
to infiltrate Morrissey’s mind with bad bad ideas. But I don’t see the FOX connection, maybe Tucker bloodlines ?

;)

Just keeps everything on the right-wing algorithm.
 
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