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Hair Barely There
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That's a great essay. I think it's very insightful, makes its case and supplies sources to back it up.
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Anonymous
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I always think that Johnny's and Morrissey's supposed closeness has been exaggerated by them in the past. I can't imagine that Moz talked to Johnny about every problem he had or much about emotions (the song "I keep mine hidden" would suggest as much). I remember reading somewhere that he could better talk with women about all kind of emotions anyway which I find quite fascinating. Must be the result of growing up surrounded by women. It's also quite telling that none of Marr's friends did click with Morrissey. They said that they accepted him because Marr obviously liked him but not much more which is rather sad. Must be awful to always feel like a fifth wheel.
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Anonymous
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Agree. Not saying they weren't close but I think it's been made to much of. The press likes to play up an angle, of course Morrisseys in love with him, and Morrisseys was probably very excited to have found a sympatico talented musical partner and well can get a bit overly romantic at times. Especially in those days. I think morrissey was more enamored by the idea of having a partner and conquering pop music in classical style like he'd always dreamed of
I loved it when Morrissey said that maybe Johnny was in love with him. Morrissey admits himself he wasn't much fun to be around especially in the early days. I still think Morrissey has to behave as he does to keep going. It can't be easy for someone who is so reserved to front a high profile band and maintain a successful solo career. There are so many vipers in the music business so Morrissey treats most people with distrust. I think Morrissey is a very honest person. Johnny always seemed a bit too concerned with being cool. I always think without Morrissey, Johnny Marr would have gone for the rock 'n' roll cliches a lot more. The fag in the mouth Keith Richards thing used to make me want to throw up.
This was a really good read. I think all great bands have the love/hate thing going on. I can't be bothered listing them. It creates a dynamic and tension that leads to great work. I bet Coldplay all get on like a f***ing house on fire.
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Anonymous
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See the different answers here about what the mean to each other
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interesting how they chose a man to translate Marr and a woman for M.
'To be sure, nearly everyone around the Smiths has always insisted Morrissey and Marr were close friends. The two have described a love between them. Their bond can’t be doubted. But what was the essence of that bond? It seems that Morrissey and Marr were never friends, in any conventional sense, apart from the music. They were true partners—friends, lovers, soul-mates, brothers—solely within the realm of pop, the common ground from which their music blossomed, and something like a friendship sprang up in support. But, after all, isn’t the artistic union everything? Isn’t that precisely the magic of pop music both men have always celebrated?'
I think this is the most important question proposed, but I'm not really satisfied with the answer Nicholas Shuit has given, if that be his answer. 'But what was the essence of that bond? ' What really happens when two or more people get together to create ? It's a very strange thing, and a new world (however ephemeral) is being created. People can become very guarded over what they have created and a 'us against them' mentality naturally springs. But what is that 'essence' ? that magic bond that happens? When the created art is deep, two or more must open up to each other and naked reveal the goods, it's a vulnerable position especially with the voice and the written word there is no hiding from the other, and in that intensity and sharing of emotions a bond is created something much stronger than just 'friendship' 'working relationship' or even 'love'.
And so I feel any artist if asked would stumble a bit trying to find the answer, maybe never asked themselves that question. I also feel that whatever happens between them somewhere in the back of their heads deep in their heart there is a voice reminding them of that thing they once both shared in the sacred process of creation, that will never die.
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Anonymous
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You can love someone without there being true, forever enduring friendship underneath, the same as you can have people in your life you perfectly like but it never strikes your heart
There are different kind of love
I think these two fell into step with eachother... musically seeing eye to eye; Morrissey opened up a lot, Marr was open and felt protective, a symbiotic relationship
And to outsiders of course - and I mean the press and fans - it looks like "love", people judge by what they know.
Angie certainly never felt threatened. It is forgotten that Andy Rourke was Marr's best friend - why did nobody say they were in love? Marr stuck with him through smack and sober times.
Answer: everyone has always loved to gossip about the outsider, Morrissey here.
No - it's NOT like any other love - it was difference because it was theirs.
There are different kind of love
I think these two fell into step with eachother... musically seeing eye to eye; Morrissey opened up a lot, Marr was open and felt protective, a symbiotic relationship
And to outsiders of course - and I mean the press and fans - it looks like "love", people judge by what they know.
Angie certainly never felt threatened. It is forgotten that Andy Rourke was Marr's best friend - why did nobody say they were in love? Marr stuck with him through smack and sober times.
Answer: everyone has always loved to gossip about the outsider, Morrissey here.
No - it's NOT like any other love - it was difference because it was theirs.
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Truth
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Marr's comments about his conversation with Moss make it clear to me anyway that he was extremely diplomatic for the sake of the band and his own career. Without Marr there would be no Smiths.
Orson Swells
Well-Known Member
Well, a member of the Healers told a different story as related to him by Marr. But it's all conjecture, of course...
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Anonymous
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You said the same in this thread. Just don't mention it if you aren't going to tell the whole story.
https://www.morrissey-solo.com/threads/morrissey-tobias.103231/
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Conjecture is solo's middle name, so I'm sure a little more wont hurt.
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Truth
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Why do people need to believe there was some secret? Isn't the music enough? That would be enough reason for them to have a bond and to work together. Johnny Marr wasn't yet 24 when he left The Smiths after being in the band for about five years. He says he left with the band at the height of their power. After working with other people who I assume treated him much differently than he was treated in his own band, he probably got some perspective on the situation.
Morrissey doesn't seem to be very easy to deal with or work with. I don't imagine being at the peak of his fame in The Smiths made him any less difficult. Morrissey seems to see a divide between himself and the other three and I'm sure that was true, but what was the reason? I don't think Morrissey can help being who he is but that doesn't make it easier for anyone to put up with it.
Morrissey doesn't seem to be very easy to deal with or work with. I don't imagine being at the peak of his fame in The Smiths made him any less difficult. Morrissey seems to see a divide between himself and the other three and I'm sure that was true, but what was the reason? I don't think Morrissey can help being who he is but that doesn't make it easier for anyone to put up with it.
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Anonymous
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Don't click this link, anybody. It doesn't reveal anything except the poster claiming to have a Healers story is lying. They may now claim they aren't lying, but the lack of substance speaks volumes, and we aren't interested anymore.
Orson Swells
Well-Known Member
Not lying... but I only know what was told to me.
