Big Issue / Robin Ince: "You can grow up to be Morrissey or you can grow up to be Johnny Marr – which are you?" (April 30, 2024)

You can grow up to be Morrissey or you can grow up to be Johnny Marr – which are you?

'Usual' article.
FWD.



Robin Ince's Bibliomaniac book advertised in the above Big Issue contains the following Morrissey mentions:

On the way to Chorlton I pass the Southern Cemetery, inspiration for The Smiths’ ‘Cemetry Gates’, in which Morrissey recalled the ‘dreaded sunny day’ when he would walk around the memorials and slabs with his friend, the artist Linder Sterling, quoting Keats and Yeats and Oscar Wilde.

Richard also appeared on the page on which I first opened Morrissey’s autobiography, ‘and then Richard Boon said something very unhelpful’. Compared to many others, he survived Morrissey’s book unscathed.

I am surrounded by paintings of gardens, so I use this as the spur to talk about nature, chimpanzees and the psychological advantages of looking at acorns and oak trees. I overrun (with permission) and then take questions, which include ‘Do you meditate?’ No. I can’t shut this grey matter up. And ‘Who would win in a fight – Alan Moore or Morrissey?’ Alan Moore would both refuse to fight and at the same time mentally crush Morrissey, so he would be left untouched, but utterly vanquished on the canvas.
 
You can grow up to be Morrissey or you can grow up to be Johnny Marr – which are you?
Articles like this make me so sad, for two reasons:

(a) It's clear that there is no way back for Morrissey, in terms of broader cultural acceptance, particularly in the UK. Even if he comes out and says "I never meant to advocate for that ridiculously small political party, I just thought they were X/Y/Z etc" nobody will believe him. At this point it doesn't matter if it's Morrissey's fault or the fault of homophobic hacks who've been out to get him since... - the damage is done.

(b) It's just a shit article anyway. You might as well be George W. Bush and say "you're either with us or against us". It's just so f***ing dumbed down. Can't we have nuanced articles about the human flaws that can, magically, lead to the creation of great art? Can't we put Morrissey in the context of fellow assholes like Picasso, Hemingway, Woody Allen, etc? That stuff is potentially fascinating but nobody has the attention span or the critical thinking skills to write about that stuff, these days.
 
There was a huge thread on Twitter the other day, sparked by someone admitting they had only just discovered that the lyric is son/heir and not sun/air - and it turned out that soooooooooo many people have always thought the same thing. Weird!!
I never understood how anyone with proper English skills (let alone being a native) could mishear those lyrics. Sure, you can hear "sun and air" but if you carry on listening it follows as "of a shyness that is criminally vulgar". I am the sun and the air of a shyness?
 
Articles like this make me so sad, for two reasons:

(a) It's clear that there is no way back for Morrissey, in terms of broader cultural acceptance, particularly in the UK. Even if he comes out and says "I never meant to advocate for that ridiculously small political party, I just thought they were X/Y/Z etc" nobody will believe him. At this point it doesn't matter if it's Morrissey's fault or the fault of homophobic hacks who've been out to get him since... - the damage is done.

(b) It's just a shit article anyway. You might as well be George W. Bush and say "you're either with us or against us". It's just so f***ing dumbed down. Can't we have nuanced articles about the human flaws that can, magically, lead to the creation of great art? Can't we put Morrissey in the context of fellow assholes like Picasso, Hemingway, Woody Allen, etc? That stuff is potentially fascinating but nobody has the attention span or the critical thinking skills to write about that stuff, these days.
Interesting thoughts but I think there is a partial way back.
He really needs to have it on record that he regrets promoting a right-wing political party which he did so unambiguously by pleading for their support on his website, and then a year later wearing their emblem in front of millions.
He can explain that their leader was a pro-animal rights feminist who had switched between parties (including Labour) and he didn't fully understand what she stood for under For Britain.
Then if/when a new single comes out (or when he next trends on Twitter) and radio stations get bashed for playing it, they can at least point to this article explaining how he regrets and withdraws the support, and the station (which could be Radio 2) can weather the storm.
The problem since 2019 is that there are lots of places where you can find quotes for him supporting the party (on Wikipedia etc) but there is literally nowhere to provide evidence that he regrets what he did and that it was a mistake. Anyone coming to the issue neutrally would conclude that he still holds those views. He thought that telling everyone that he has never voted would get him off the hook, but that was clearly never going to work. Wearing a t-shirt saying, 'I'm not far right, I'm far forward' was equally pointless.
 
I never understood how anyone with proper English skills (let alone being a native) could mishear those lyrics. Sure, you can hear "sun and air" but if you carry on listening it follows as "of a shyness that is criminally vulgar". I am the sun and the air of a shyness?
Maybe some people just have very low expectations of pop lyrics making much sense? I blame Kajagoogoo.
 
I love random Limahl references

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I wish Pop music had lyrics like Kajagoogoo nowadays.
Or melodies. Commercial pop in the 80’s might not always have been very profound, but it almost always had strong, often melancholy minor key, melodies, atmospheric arrangements and sung by strong voices.
 
There was a huge thread on Twitter the other day, sparked by someone admitting they had only just discovered that the lyric is son/heir and not sun/air - and it turned out that soooooooooo many people have always thought the same thing. Weird!!
my mate used to think that as well for years,its like people thinking the anthology horror films like vault of horror,dr terrors house of horrors were made by hammer and yet they were made by amicus.
as for the article,pile of pish.
 
Never knew about the confusion..."son and heir" is a known phrase, "sun and air" isn't, as far as I know. Re article, so you can be a d*** (by implication like Morrissey) or you can be kind (by implication like Johnny Marr) - that is a bit extreme. So you can't be one on one occasion and the other at a different time?
 
Articles like this make me so sad, for two reasons:

(a) It's clear that there is no way back for Morrissey, in terms of broader cultural acceptance, particularly in the UK. Even if he comes out and says "I never meant to advocate for that ridiculously small political party, I just thought they were X/Y/Z etc" nobody will believe him. At this point it doesn't matter if it's Morrissey's fault or the fault of homophobic hacks who've been out to get him since... - the damage is done.

(b) It's just a shit article anyway. You might as well be George W. Bush and say "you're either with us or against us". It's just so f***ing dumbed down. Can't we have nuanced articles about the human flaws that can, magically, lead to the creation of great art? Can't we put Morrissey in the context of fellow assholes like Picasso, Hemingway, Woody Allen, etc? That stuff is potentially fascinating but nobody has the attention span or the critical thinking skills to write about that stuff, these days.
When you say 'cultural acceptance' you mean by the mainstream media? Most ordinary people would agree with Morrissey on the issues that have made him a so-called 'pariah'. I think he knows that. It's hard back tracking from something when you know all you have against you is lies and more lies.
 
When you say 'cultural acceptance' you mean by the mainstream media? Most ordinary people would agree with Morrissey on the issues that have made him a so-called 'pariah'. I think he knows that. It's hard back tracking from something when you know all you have against you is lies and more lies.
Well yes. He's never going to get much in the way of coverage / airplay via the BBC / music press / broadsheets unless in some way he addresses the perception that has (fairly or unfairly) grown around him.

You may be right that "most" ordinary people would agree with him - but then it's hard to know exactly they'd be agreeing (or not) with, since he's never been clear about it himself. If he wants to make the case, for example, that Britain is being over-run by immigration, and if most ordinary Brits (as I think you're implying) would back him on that, then surely it would be better for him to just come out and say it, and be prepared to defend his argument - rather than just dropping little bombs here and there and then running away and claiming persecution.

I remain a huge fan, I just genuinely don't understand his strategy with this stuff. ("Strategy" may be totally the wrong word here.)
 
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