Irish Blood, English Heart - Oliver Cromwell

[The Seeker of Good Songs]

I've been reading a book on English History and I am confused about this Oliver Cromwell business.

My understanding from Morrissey's song and his past is that he dislikes the Royal family, and Royalty/Monarchy in general, or am I wrong.

If that is the case why does he dislike Olive Cromwell, who helped end the monarchy of Charles I after the English Civil War in 1649. Or does all of England dislike him?
I understand that Cromwell was a Puritan and a religious zealot but he also broke the power of the Church of England, which I would assume Morrissey dislikes also, the Church of England that is.
The monarchy came back a few years later, after Cromwell's death, with Charles II.

Where is the connection that the Monarchy/Royalty salute Cromwell?

I did read some that the Irish hate Cromwell but I didn't read exactly why.
"It is the measure of his achievement that there are more roads in England named after Oliver Cromwell than anyone except Queen Victoria - and none in Ireland."

"He never became King Oliver, but he was crowned King Kill Joy - and when he died of Malaria in September 1658 there was dancing in the streets. It was 'the joyfullest funeral that I ever saw', wrote John Evelyn, 'for there was none that cried but dogs.'"

 

[down_in_albion]

The Cromwellian conquest of Ireland (1649-53) refers to the re-conquest of Ireland by the forces English Parliament, led by Oliver Cromwell during the Wars of the Three Kingdoms. Cromwell landed in Ireland with his New Model Army on behalf of the English Parliament in 1649. Since the Irish Rebellion of 1641, Ireland had been mainly under the control of the Irish Confederate Catholics, who in 1649, signed an alliance with the English Royalist party, which had been defeated in the English Civil War. Cromwell's forces defeated the Confederate and Royalist coalition in Ireland and occupied the country - bringing to an end the Irish Confederate Wars. He passed a very harsh series of Penal laws against Roman Catholics and confiscated almost all of their land. The Parliamentarian reconquest of Ireland was extremely brutal, and it has been alleged that many of the army's actions during the reconquest would today be called war crimes. Cromwell is still a hated figure in Ireland. However, several historians claim that many of the actions taken by Cromwell were within the then-accepted rules of war, or were exaggerated or distorted by later propagandists.[1] These claims are contested by many other historians.[2] The Parliamentarian campaign, which Cromwell largely headed, is estimated to have resulted in the death or exile of up to a third of the Irish population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cromwellian_conquest_of_Ireland

 

[Kewpie]

For the interst of new members and people who missed it earlier, please read the following thread posted by nightandday:

http://forums.morrissey-solo.com/showthread.php?t=68048

 

[Jukebox Jury]

I'm not too up on the subject but in short, he waged many a battle against the Catholics in Ireland (as did many other monarchs) killing thousands and thousands in the process.

The reason for the todays monarchy saluting him is although Cromwell 'did away with royalty' back then, it wasn't like the French Revolution where they were not only deposed but also taken away and got rid of permanantly, here, Cromwell merely took their power away but not the privilages, they retained their wealth, land and influence on British society.

I'm sure someone will either add or correct this.

Jukebox Jury

 

[SNS22]

I'm not too up on the subject but in short, he waged many a battle against the Catholics in Ireland (as did many other monarchs) killing thousands and thousands in the process.

The reason for the todays monarchy saluting him is although Cromwell 'did away with royalty' back then, it wasn't like the French Revolution where they were not only deposed but also taken away and got rid of permanantly, here, Cromwell merely took their power away but not the privilages, they retained their wealth, land and influence on British society.

I'm sure someone will either add or correct this.

Jukebox Jury

Cromwell ended one dynasty and his death gave birth to the current royal line....

 

[SouthpawGlamour]

I've been reading a book on English History and I am confused about this Oliver Cromwell business.

My understanding from Morrissey's song and his past is that he dislikes the Royal family, and Royalty/Monarchy in general, or am I wrong.

If that is the case why does he dislike Olive Cromwell, who helped end the monarchy of Charles I after the English Civil War in 1649. Or does all of England dislike him?
I understand that Cromwell was a Puritan and a religious zealot but he also broke the power of the Church of England, which I would assume Morrissey dislikes also, the Church of England that is.
The monarchy came back a few years later, after Cromwell's death, with Charles II.

Where is the connection that the Monarchy/Royalty salute Cromwell?

I did read some that the Irish hate Cromwell but I didn't read exactly why.
"It is the measure of his achievement that there are more roads in England named after Oliver Cromwell than anyone except Queen Victoria - and none in Ireland."

"He never became King Oliver, but he was crowned King Kill Joy - and when he died of Malaria in September 1658 there was dancing in the streets. It was 'the joyfullest funeral that I ever saw', wrote John Evelyn, 'for there was none that cried but dogs.'"

I don't think it's literal. Cromwell is just a symbol of Irish oppression and British Imperialism in the song, just someone people know I suppose and much feared because of his style of destroying enemies rather than just defeating.

Cromwell, was anti-royal then royalist, depending on what mood he was in.

 

[left out]

I read somewhere that Cromwell died of malaria,
so the Mozzies got their revenge in before Moz !