Is it about......

[lilikoi]

I never understood why anyone said Handsome Devil was about 'child abuse'. Where is it in any way mentioned or insinuated that anyone in the song was a child?! "exams" and "scholarly room" point to a student, yes. Which, depending on your school system, should mean age range from an adolescent (about 16?) to early 20s. Correct me if I'm wrong, since when do children pass exams??


I don't see how the other person is 'obviously' a married teacher? It could be anyone, including another student; and how do you know they are married?

well, even if it´s a 20 year old student, getting helped thru an exam in exchange for sex is abuse, isn´t it? ist also illegal.

to me the line "let me get you head in the conjugal bed" suggests that the teacher is married.

so what us your interpretation?

 

[lilikoi]

That way you can say that any song has a 'gay subject', if that's what you want to do.

i think many moz lyrics are about gay subjects, like hand in glove, the boy with the thorn, i like you, charming man. i´m not trying to look for it, but for example when he says ´it´s so shameful of me, i like you´ and then talks about magistrates who are envious, well then what kind of love can he be possibly be talking about but a love that is
discrminated by society - and that still is gay love. and since moz critizises our rigid society in most of his songs, i interpret his words that way.

 

[nightandday]

i think many moz lyrics are about gay subjects, like hand in glove, the boy with the thorn, i like you, charming man. i´m not trying to look for it, but for example when he says ´it´s so shameful of me, i like you´ and then talks about magistrates who are envious, well then what kind of love can he be possibly be talking about but a love that is
discrminated by society - and that still is gay love. and since moz critizises our rigid society in most of his songs, i interpret his words that way.

What does Boy With the Thorn In His Side have to do with homosexuality?? And you're really stretching it with I Like You. Hand In Glove can be about a homosexual couple, or some other couple. Someone could say "oh, you see, this is about an interracial couple, I know it, because I've had this happen to me" or "you see, this is about a couple of homeless people/punk rock kids" or whatever. Or you might as well claim that "Trash" by Suede (which has a very similar subject) or "No Ordinary Love" by Sade are songs about homosexual love. Anyone can have their own interpretations, I just don't see the point of claiming 'you see, this is a gay song, and this is not my interpretation, it is a fact'.

 

[nightandday]

well, even if it´s a 20 year old student, getting helped thru an exam in exchange for sex is abuse, isn´t it? ist also illegal.

to me the line "let me get you head in the conjugal bed" suggests that the teacher is married.

so what us your interpretation?

Well, it seems like it all depends on the person who listens to the song! I do see now that your theory makes sense, too, but I never thought about it that way. I didn't take the line about 'conjugal bed' literally, I just thought of it as Morrissey's way of saying something very simple as 'I want to have sex with you' using formal words such as 'conjugal bed' or 'mammary glands'. I see how you made the connection 'conjugal bed' = marriage, I just didn't think about it that way. As for 'a boy in the bush is worth two in the hand, I think I can help you get through your exams' I never thought this was an offer of letting someone pass exams in exchange for sex. I thought about it as cheeky flirtation, as in 'there are other things besides books and learning, believe me you'll pass your exams easier when you get some *help* from me winkwink'. The lyrics are so ambiguous, you saw it a tale of seduction/abuse, and I saw it as a celebration of sexuality.

Anyway, Morrissey's own words about the song, were " 'a boy in the bush'... is addressed to a scholar, the message of the song is to forget the cultivation of the brain and concentrate on the cultivation of the body"...which, I think, is closer to my interpretation.

 

[lilikoi]

What does Boy With the Thorn In His Side have to do with homosexuality?? And you're really stretching it with I Like You. '.

the boy with a thorn, well to me it says people still do not believe there can be love in the eyes of 2 men and if they don´t belive it by now in this day and age, when the hell will they ever belive it.


and as for i like it, also the end you´re not right in the head´, that´s what was said about homosexuality, that it´s a mental disease.

i am not saying i am right at all, but if it would be about this then the entire song makes a lot of sense to me and is very clever. but if you have another interpretation, tell me, i´m curious.

by the way, sandy shaw says in the importance of being moz that his work is homoerotic but people fail to see this.

 

[nightandday]

by the way, sandy shaw says in the importance of being moz that his work is homoerotic but people fail to see this.

It was another documentary (called "Boys and Girls" or something), not TIOBM. And that comment was puzzling to me, like "Do you live on Mars, Sandie?!" As far as I can see it, people have been going on and on about Morrissey's work being 'homoerotic', it's exaggerated to the point where people claim that absolutely every song Morrissey ever wrote was about being gay and make the most far-fetched theories to prove it (the first award goes to the person who said on www.songmeanings.net about Alsatian Cousin that "there are no women in this song, he only mentions the pronoun 'he' {were you and he lovers?}, so it's obviously about two men!" Erm...sorry??), while on the other hand everyone seems very determined to ignore anything in Morrissey's work that is 'heteroerotic', even when it's as blatant as can be.

BTW quote from Morrissey in TIOBM: "I don't know what homoerotic is. I know what erotic is. Nobody ever talks about something being heteroerotic."

the boy with a thorn, well to me it says people still do not believe there can be love in the eyes of 2 men and if they don´t belive it by now in this day and age, when the hell will they ever belive it.

Morrissey talking about The Boy With A Thorn In His Side in the Margi Clarke interview:

"the thorn is the music industry and all those people who would just never believe anything I said, tried to get rid of me, wouldn't play the records. So I think we've reached the stage where we feel 'if they don't believe me now, will they ever believe me'? What more can a boy do?"

and as for i like it, also the end you´re not right in the head´, that´s what was said about homosexuality, that it´s a mental disease.

i am not saying i am right at all, but if it would be about this then the entire song makes a lot of sense to me and is very clever. but if you have another interpretation, tell me, i´m curious.

You mean, when you say that someone is a bit mad, or 'not right in the head', that actually means they're gay?! And nobody is ever considered eccentric, strange or crazy unless they're homosexual? Riiiight...

The song makes sense anyway. "You're not right in the head, nor am I, and this is why I like you" has an obvious meaning (and it is witty and funny) that I fail to see why would you need an explanation?

If you really think that 'you're not right in the head, nor am I' must mean 'we are both gay', well... then I give up. You are right! If a song is about being different, it must be about being gay! if it's about being thought of as weird - gay! if it's about illness - it's about being gay! if it's about unhappiness, problems with sex or relationships, about feeling miserable - it must be about being gay! Because, as we know, all heterosexual people are normal, healthy, happy, mentally and emotionally stabile, socially well-adjusted, with absolutely no problems in sex and/or love, with no care in the world... and they only listen to Morrissey and The Smiths because they like the tunes...

 

[lilikoi]

You mean, when you say that someone is a bit mad, or 'not right in the head', that actually means they're gay?! And nobody is ever considered eccentric, strange or crazy unless they're homosexual?

you seem to think that´s what i think but the opposite is true - that´s what the homophobes think - and i thought the song was critical of that awful attitude.
but if my interpretations are nonsense, then what does it mean? why would it be shameful to like someone, and what are the magistrates doing in there?

well, if the boy with the thorn is really about morrissey and the music industry then i can only say it sucks and is totally meaningless. i thought morrissey was writing songs about society, not about his silly little problems wit
the music industry which are of no interest to anyone exept a few obsessed fans. so, you´re disapointing me there. i keep up the hope for a deeper meaning than that!
and also, if it´s just about him then why is their ´love in our eyes´ - who is us? there´s 2 people involved in this song.

 

[chica]

you seem to think that´s what i think but the opposite is true - that´s what the homophobes think - and i thought the song was critical of that awful attitude.

It may have been critical, or Moz was just repeating the words that he had been taught, being a good catholic boy and everything.

 

[Jones]

I think just about every pop song written could be interpreted as a "gay" song if you want to.

It seems to be the current trendy interpretation. In ten years time the songs will probably be given other interpretations just as they were when they first came out.

Artists being gay or in the closet is a current preoccupation in society, but it's really just a current obsession because it is a relatively new thing to talk about.

 

[lilikoi]

Artists being gay or in the closet is a current preoccupation in society, but it's really just a current obsession because it is a relatively new thing to talk about.

i don´t think an artist has to be gay to be interested in gay rights, just as one doesn´t have to be a cow to be into animal rights.

 

[Jones]

i don´t think an artist has to be gay to be interested in gay rights, just as one doesn´t have to be a cow to be into animal rights.

Where did I say that? I said it was a current preoccupation of society, not of gay people only.

That's why every time an artist is suspected of being gay everyone gets overexcited like it's the most heinous crime that they aren't hobnobbing with Elton and dancing at GAY every Friday night.

 

[lilikoi]

Where did I say that? I said it was a current preoccupation of society, not of gay people only.

That's why every time an artist is suspected of being gay everyone gets overexcited like it's the most heinous crime that they aren't hobnobbing with Elton and dancing at GAY every Friday night.

but anyway - people are saying that my interpretations are rubbish but I am still waiting for explanations, come on now, gimme something!

I'd be very interested in peoples interpretations of 'dear god' too.

 

[nightandday]

but anyway - people are saying that my interpretations are rubbish but I am still waiting for explanations, come on now, gimme something!

I'd be very interested in peoples interpretations of 'dear god' too.

I didn't say your interpretations were rubbish, anyone can have their own interpretations, that's the beauty of it. But it's a bit puzzling when people come up with something - especially when it's far from obvious - and say, this is it, it can only mean this. There is no need for that, you may have your interpretation of a song even when you know that that wasn't what the songwriter had in mind. (I enjoy "Still Ill" and "A Rush and A Push" because many of the lines describe the life in Serbia in the 90s/early 00s so well - even though I obviously know that Morrissey could not have meant that LOL)

I told you Morrissey's interpretation of The Boy With The Thorn In His Side, and you said it was rubbish and that you're disappointed!... Maybe it's really better if he doesn't explain anything, and if people don't learn what the songs are written about.

I didnt't give you any particular interpretation of I Like You because I don't see any need for it. I would think that 'you're not right in the head, and nor am I' is pretty much self-explanatory, and certainly not meant seriously, in the sense of 'mental illness', rather as 'a litle nutty=eccentric, quirky. (BTW now you've actually made me remember that there is a Serbian 'turbo-folk' song which goes 'you're a bit nutty, so am I, that why I fell in love with you, honey' {'Luckasta si ti, takav sam i ja, zato sam te duso, zavoleo ja'}...and before you think it's gay pride song, in Serbian the grammar used in these lines makes it clear that 'you' is female and 'I' is male. I don't feel good for having to make this hardly complimentary comparison! )

I don't see where in the song he says that he it is 'shameful' to like someone? He just says that people are envious of them (maybe he feels that way because he's happy - and when you're happy you tend to think that everyone should envy you). You might be disappointed if the song is not a political song with deep hidden meanings, but to me it just seems like you're reading a bit too much into it, if you're basing it all on the word 'magistrates'. It's not the first time Morrissey has mentioned members of a court in a song, is it. and if you're taking it literally - as far as I know, homosexual relationships aren't a crime or a misdemenour in USA or UK at the end of the 20th and beginning of the 21st century, so having a gay relationship could make people call you names, gossip about you, it could make homophobes attack you physically, but it won't get you arrested. Some other sexual practices might still be illegal, but homosexuality isn't, so if you're going to criticize society for its attitude to homosexuality, bringing the court into it would pretty much miss the point.

Anyway, I don't understand why people assume that Morrissey is writing lyrics with cryptic political messages - it seems to me that whenever Morrissey wants to make a political point, he makes it very directly and explicitly, in his interviews and in his lyrics.

As for "Dear God...", I'm not entirely sure what it means, but if I quote Morrissey's explanation, will you call it rubbish?

 

[nightandday]

well, if the boy with the thorn is really about morrissey and the music industry then i can only say it sucks and is totally meaningless. i thought morrissey was writing songs about society, not about his silly little problems wit
the music industry which are of no interest to anyone exept a few obsessed fans. so, you´re disapointing me there. i keep up the hope for a deeper meaning than that!
and also, if it´s just about him then why is their ´love in our eyes´ - who is us? there´s 2 people involved in this song.

You don't know that. "We" can mean "me and another person", or it can mean "me and other people" (me and my band? me and my fans? me and people who are like me? etc.)

 

[nightandday]

It may have been critical, or Moz was just repeating the words that he had been taught, being a good catholic boy and everything.

How did this conversation get from "there's a line in I Like You that goes 'you're not right in the head, nor am I" to "this must be about a homosexual relationship, Morrissey is criticizing people for thinking that homosexuality is mental illness" to "Morrissey is a good Catholic boy with homophobic beliefs such as that homosexuality is a mental illness"?!

When hdid Morrissey ever express any homophobic ideas or attitudes?? Please provide an example. As far as I can see, it's always been the opposite. He is one of the least homophobic people in the world that I can think of.

 

[lilikoi]

How did this conversation get from "there's a line in I Like You that goes 'you're not right in the head, nor am I" to "this must be about a homosexual relationship, Morrissey is criticizing people for thinking that homosexuality is mental illness" to "Morrissey is a good Catholic boy with homophobic beliefs such as that homosexuality is a mental illness"?!

When hdid Morrissey ever express any homophobic ideas or attitudes?? Please provide an example. As far as I can see, it's always been the opposite. He is one of the least homophobic people in the world that I can think of.

but repeating stupid words in a sarcastic way and therefore displaying their stupidity IS criticism.

and as far as homeosexuality not being illegal anymore, fine, but discriminated nevertheless when it comes to rights as a couple. so, magistrates would be the people keeping them from getting married for example, no?

and where did morrissey say that the boy is about him and the music industry? where did you find this info, yes, where do you find these moz interpretations? if we had the link we could all stop discussing the meanings and twisting our heads.

 

[nightandday]

I think just about every pop song written could be interpreted as a "gay" song if you want to.

It seems to be the current trendy interpretation. In ten years time the songs will probably be given other interpretations just as they were when they first came out.

Artists being gay or in the closet is a current preoccupation in society, but it's really just a current obsession because it is a relatively new thing to talk about.

Sometimes I have fun by applying the same kind of logic to other artists' lyrics and making the same kind of far-fetched theories that people make about many of Morrissey's songs.

For instance: someone said Hand In Glove was about a gay couple because there's a line 'it's not like any other love, this one is different because it's us' => Sade's "No Ordinary Love" and Peter Murphy's "Strange Kind Of Love" are obviously gay songs!!

Someone said that Girfriend In A Coma is about being gay because he wants the girl to die so 'his interest in girls would die too'?! => nobody has written as many songs about killing women than Nick Cave, Nick Cave is the gayest men ever!!

And what about Paul Weller! Imagine if Morrissey had written "You do something to me, something deep inside..." - I'm sure people on morrissey-solo and songmeanings.net would be saying that it's obviously about receieving anal sex!! Then there's Sunflower - "I don't know how long this lasts - we have no future, we have no past", "On winding streets, we walk hand in hand" - it's all about a gay relationship surviving the prejudices of society and feeling a pride in being gay (otherwise it's just a silly little love song with no deep meaning)! And of course, "Wild Wood" - that one is obviously a criticism of attitudes to homosexuality and a wish for a better future when it will be accepted by the society! and he says 'you'll find your way out of the wild, wild wood" - winkwink

 

[nightandday]

and where did morrissey say that the boy is about him and the music industry? where did you find this info, yes, where do you find these moz interpretations? if we had the link we could all stop discussing the meanings and twisting our heads.

In this TV interview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGJJBUbZB4M

 

[Worm]

I'm surprised there's this much debate. A lot's been written about this song. A Google search will reveal a number of high-profile interpretations of this song. I've cut and pasted a few.

Johnny Rogan describes it from a biographical standpoint:

"I Just Want To See The Boy Happy" would emerge on his 2006 album Ringleader Of The Tormentors. The seventeen year old Morrissey had come home from school one evening and watched the film "The Boy In The Plastic Bubble". Moved by the film's heart-rending tale of a terminally ill boy, played with melting pathos by John Travolta, Morrissey spent 11 hours in the bathtub composing song lyrics, a fact corroborated by a neighbor, Mrs. Potts-Sacker, who told me she noticed the Morrissey's bathroom light on one evening in 1976. Those song lyrics would eventually become the Ringleader track, although in the intervening years Morrissey would omit several of the original lines, including musings about flying saucers, Colonel Tom Parker, malodorous Congolese, and a prophetic dream sequence involving a tiny mop-headed elf who would one day befriend him, fall in love with him, and break his heart by suddenly returning to his magic cave. The supernatural element in Morrissey's lyrics is a book I will one day write."​

And this from Rolling Stone magazine:

"Ringleader Of The Tormentors features a number of melancholy, eccentric songs from the melancholy, eccentric British singer, Morrissey. The melancholy, eccentric "The Youngest Was The Most Loved" sounds British and mopey, like his ex-band The Smiths. But there are signs of growth, too. "Dear God, Please Help Me" finds melancholy Morrissey eccentrically moping in Rome instead of Britain. Meanwhile, the melancholy "You Have Killed Me" mentions the filmmakers the ex-Smiths singer enjoys watching while moping, often in Britain. Finally, "I Just Want To See The Boy Happy" is a moping eccentric gay British anthem for melancholy students, British people, and ex-Smiths singers. 2 1/2 Stars."​

Chuck Klosterman was more enthusiastic in Spin:

The penultimate track on the album, "I Just Want To See The Boy Happy", features a man who is about to die telling God his final wish. That wish? To see the boy happy. Inherent in this is a deeper question about life. We often ask ourselves, "What does it mean to die?" We rarely ask ourselves, "What does it mean to live?" Living means you are probably not dead, and could also be asking yourself questions. But living could also mean that you are not undead and/or not unborn, two significant categories of active human agency revealed to us by George Romero and "Scanners". I am in my thirties, which means I have been alive for not more than 14,600 days. As I write this, I am sitting on a mechanical bull in a Kansas City club. None of the pseudo-cowboys tossing beers at me has asked themselves "What does it mean to live?" They probably don't even own a Billy Joel album. And it is precisely this ignorance which deftly informs Morrissey's "I Just Want To See The Boy Happy". We don't need to ask these questions. Like a jet-setting gay Alex Trebek, Morrissey has answered it for us.​

Finally, Armond White in Slate:

"I Just Want To See The Boy Happy" is Morrissey in fine form again, the protean verve of his pen creating a chiarascuro effect-- in music-- articulating the Marxist dialectic of late capitalism and pickled herring. Here is Morrissey in all his unsettling power. Ever the provacteur, Morrissey forces a revision of our expectations-- who is this boy, and why his first love? In the Irish Rebellion of 1798, many Irishmen died hoping lives for their sons would be better. Similarly, Morrissey thrusts a fist in the face of his smug English overlords and demands happiness. That such an appeal-- to a Lord, presumably Lord Edward FitzGerald (notice that all the letters in the words "Edward" appear in a cryptic order throughout the song's lyrics)-- must go unfulfilled only adds to the poignancy of Morrissey's courageous howl for justice.​

Case closed, I think.

 

[nightandday]

And this from Rolling Stone magazine:

"Ringleader Of The Tormentors features a number of melancholy, eccentric songs from the melancholy, eccentric British singer, Morrissey. The melancholy, eccentric "The Youngest Was The Most Loved" sounds British and mopey, like his ex-band The Smiths. But there are signs of growth, too. "Dear God, Please Help Me" finds melancholy Morrissey eccentrically moping in Rome instead of Britain. Meanwhile, the melancholy "You Have Killed Me" mentions the filmmakers the ex-Smiths singer enjoys watching while moping, often in Britain. Finally, "I Just Want To See The Boy Happy" is a moping eccentric gay British anthem for melancholy students, British people, and ex-Smiths singers. 2 1/2 Stars."​

HOW TO WRITE A MORRISSEY REVIEW FOR THE ROLLING STONE MAGAZINE:

It's the easiest thing in the world. Just use the words "melancholy", "eccentric", "mopey" and "gay" as many times you can. You don't have to even listen to his damn records - just get the songs titles right, and be sure to mention that a few times that he is British and that he was the singer of The Smiths, so people would see that you know stuff about him. Submit your review. Collect the money.

P.S. If anyone complains, say that you were being ironic.