"Israel" should be released as a solidarity single now

[nicky wire's legs]

Civilized countries, you know ? !

 

[goinghome]

It's a grubby argument. Not a good look, goinghome.

Sorry gashonthenail: grubby and a bad look it is.
The Irish and Native Americans in 19th century: since, Namibia, the Congo, Cambodia, Armenia, Myanmar, East Timor, Sudan, Somalia, and on and on.

Maybe what was exceptional about Jewish mass killings by Nazis is that Jews are white. One(s) of our own

"The poor, especially when they are of color, do not count. They can be killed like flies...Human history is one long atrocity for the world’s poor and vulnerable. Gaza is another chapter." - https://consortiumnews.com/2024/02/09/chris-hedges-let-them-eat-dirt/

It seems if you're rich and you're white
You think you're so right
I just don't see why
This should be so

After all the appropriation and extraction though, the Global South hasn't gotten off scot-free. You could say it's brought genocide home. Technology means it's far easier to kill many more of those who rise up much quicker. But these means of power affect those who control them too. Gun violence is the number one cause of death in American children. Besides addiction and obesity, mental illness is rampant. Pollution of all kinds is quietly disrupting living systems, including human bodies, with the drug barons gloating over the 'turbo' cancers they expect to be devising (probably toxic) treatments for. While the sun burns through to the planet's core

 

[gashonthenail]

Sorry gashonthenail: grubby and a bad look it is.
The Irish and Native Americans in 19th century: since, Namibia, the Congo, Cambodia, Armenia, Myanmar, East Timor, Sudan, Somalia, and on and on.

Maybe what was exceptional about Jewish mass killings by Nazis is that Jews are white. One(s) of our own

"The poor, especially when they are of color, do not count. They can be killed like flies...Human history is one long atrocity for the world’s poor and vulnerable. Gaza is another chapter." - https://consortiumnews.com/2024/02/09/chris-hedges-let-them-eat-dirt/

It seems if you're rich and you're white
You think you're so right
I just don't see why
This should be so

After all the appropriation and extraction though, the Global South hasn't gotten off scot-free. You could say it's brought genocide home. Technology means it's far easier to kill many more of those who rise up much quicker. But these means of power affect those who control them too. Gun violence is the number one cause of death in American children. Besides addiction and obesity, mental illness is rampant. Pollution of all kinds is quietly disrupting living systems, including human bodies, with the drug barons gloating over the 'turbo' cancers they expect to be devising (probably toxic) treatments for. While the sun burns through to the planet's core

Grubbier. You seem determined to go further into David Irving territory.
You really need someone to explain what was exceptional about the Holocaust? The application of the principles of the Ford production line to mass murder. You can have any death you want - as long as it's black. That's what made the Holocaust an event of unique horror.
I agree that no one should use the Holocaust to shield Israel from criticism. But to compare the Holocaust to Ireland or the Congo - or cancer?!? - is just obtuse.

 

[Lucifer Sam]

Dougie has a sense of humour when he speaks. I even imagine he finds his own over the top sneering amusing, as it certainly is to me. If you missed this important component of dougie--his comedic genius when it comes to the absurd--then you don't really understand dougie.

If he was on some kind of Andy Kaufman trip where he's in character and refusing to break it, then I'd have more respect for him. I'll admit the sneer is amusing in a camp-villain way, but "comedic genius" is too high praise. Let's remember the audience, he's often playing to Christian Zionist yahus watching Fox News. They're taking him seriously.

 

[gashonthenail]

If he was on some kind of Andy Kaufman trip where he's in character and refusing to break it, then I'd have more respect for him. I'll admit the sneer is amusing in a camp-villain way, but "comedic genius" is too high praise. Let's remember the audience, he's often playing to Christian Zionist yahus watching Fox News. They're taking him seriously.

You have to admit, Aubs, he is rather funny.

Scram!

 

[Lucifer Sam]

You have to admit, Aubs, he is rather funny.

Scram!

Eh. Five and a half minutes in and it's everyone against Israel is an "Islamist" followed by generic whining about the same old tiresome safe spaces and non-binary stuff. J.K. Rowling again? You likened him to Christopher Hitchens earlier in this thread, and I'm sorry, but it's not a good comparison. Hitchens would've gotten in several good zingers in his first five minutes.

Also, this is about a fundraiser for Israeli students called up for service? Israel is getting 14 billion from the US and likely another 18 billion on top of that; exactly how much more do these people need, especially given that a popular anti-Semitic trope is greediness? Surely they can allot some of that to student aid. Humanitarian aid to Gaza from the US meanwhile: 100 million.

 

[goinghome]

Grubbier. You seem determined to go further into David Irving territory.
You really need someone to explain what was exceptional about the Holocaust? The application of the principles of the Ford production line to mass murder. You can have any death you want - as long as it's black. That's what made the Holocaust an event of unique horror.
I agree that no one should use the Holocaust to shield Israel from criticism. But to compare the Holocaust to Ireland or the Congo - or cancer?!? - is just obtuse.

The current genocide in Sudan is explained in the context of Palestine and world affairs - https://www.planetcritical.com/p/climate-wars-fuelling-genocide-in?publication_

Surely you are not suggesting a hierarchy of human suffering?

Let me paraphrase someone who put it best of all.

Hath not a Palestinian eyes? Hath not a Palestinian hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions? Fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer, as a Jew is? If you prick us, do we not bleed? If you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you poison us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that. If a Palestinian wrong a Jew, what is his humility? Revenge. If a Jew wrong a Palestinian, what should his sufferance be by Jew example? Why, revenge. The villainy you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction.

And round and round it goes. A prominent Jewish family with Holocaust experience discussed why Zionist Israel has been wrong for the past century -https://znetwork.org/zvideo/gaza-be...pain-gabor-aaron-daniel-mate-in-conversation/

 

[WhalleyRange]

Murray was recently accused of downplaying Nazi murder of Jews. In the Jewish Chronicle of all places.
Saying that the SS didn't enjoy their work but Hamas did.
Which isn't actually true in the case of the SS.

This creature was an MEP for Britain This unfortunately is what far-right Toryism and far-right Zionism is now : genocidal , racist and psychotic. With their allies like Trump , Le Pen, the AfD, Wilders, Braverman and the like they won't rest until they've killed everyone outside their genocidal cult.

 

[WhalleyRange]

Murray was recently accused of downplaying Nazi murder of Jews. In the Jewish Chronicle of all places.
Saying that the SS didn't enjoy their work but Hamas did.
Which isn't actually true in the case of the SS.

The lying snivelling little bastard. A complete lie. Yes some didn't like it but a lot of them enjoyed it and volunteered for extra work. They had been told that Jews were the reason Germany was being bombed to shit so most had no problems with it.

 

[Malarkey]

The "anti-cancel culture" mob cancelled the hell out of Paul Currie.

Soho theatre bans comedian after ‘verbal abuse’ of Jewish audience members

Venue says Paul Currie will not be invited back after allegations he verbally abused man who objected to Palestinian flag

www.theguardian.com

He needed a bollocking for treating an audience member like that - you can't demand they stand up, if you ask them a question, you have to accept the answer & shouting abuse at them is disgusting - but I don't think he needs to be martyred or banned forever over it.

Especially as he comes from a place with a high level of sectarian aggression - it can make people more volatile & anxious than usual.

 

[gashonthenail]

Murray was recently accused of downplaying Nazi murder of Jews. In the Jewish Chronicle of all places.
Saying that the SS didn't enjoy their work but Hamas did.
Which isn't actually true in the case of the SS.

This creature was an MEP for Britain This unfortunately is what far-right Toryism and far-right Zionism is now : genocidal , racist and psychotic. With their allies like Trump , Le Pen, the AfD, Wilders, Braverman and the like they won't rest until they've killed everyone outside their genocidal cult.

View attachment 101644

He didn't 'downplay' the Holocaust. He made the point, a crass point perhaps - introducing Hitler or the Nazis into any discussion on current events is generally unwise and should be avoided - that the Nazis never claimed responsibility for the extermination of Jews and never publicly 'celebrated' the extermination of Jews. In fact they did their best to hide the extermination of Jews from the general public and in propaganda presented the death camps as mere labour camps. Whereas Hamas immediately claimed responsibility for the pogrom on 7th October, celebrated it, and said their desire was to repeat it as much as possible. As I say, it's a crass point, but it is factual.

 

[gashonthenail]

The "anti-cancel culture" mob cancelled the hell out of Paul Currie.

Soho theatre bans comedian after ‘verbal abuse’ of Jewish audience members

Venue says Paul Currie will not be invited back after allegations he verbally abused man who objected to Palestinian flag

www.theguardian.com

He needed a bollocking for treating an audience member like that - you can't demand they stand up, if you ask them a question, you have to accept the answer & shouting abuse at them is disgusting - but I don't think he needs to be martyred or banned forever over it.

Especially as he comes from a place with a high level of sectarian aggression - it can make people more volatile & anxious than usual.

No. The theatre has cancelled him. The theatre should have said - we stand for free speech and the right to be offensive.

 

[TheSmiths_1985]

Especially as he comes from a place with a high level of sectarian aggression - it can make people more volatile & anxious than usual.

 

[JM🇬🇧]

After England, Israel is the ONLY country I'd feel safe with having nuclear weapons.

Douglas Murray is the only person I’d feel safe having nuclear weapons.

 

[nicky wire's legs]

Douglas Murray is the only person I’d feel safe having nuclear weapons.

For me it's Douglas Murray and Nicky Wire!

 

[Lucifer Sam]

He didn't 'downplay' the Holocaust. He made the point, a crass point perhaps - introducing Hitler or the Nazis into any discussion on current events is generally unwise and should be avoided - that the Nazis never claimed responsibility for the extermination of Jews and never publicly 'celebrated' the extermination of Jews. In fact they did their best to hide the extermination of Jews from the general public and in propaganda presented the death camps as mere labour camps. Whereas Hamas immediately claimed responsibility for the pogrom on 7th October, celebrated it, and said their desire was to repeat it as much as possible. As I say, it's a crass point, but it is factual.

Isn't it a false dichotomy, though? The Nazis were not contending against the Jews as an oppressor state with superior military might. The proper analogy would be if Jews in a concentration camp had somehow managed to get guns smuggled in and gone on a murderous rampage against a neighboring village where Nazi youths were having a dance festival.

 

[WhalleyRange]

It's not actually true that the Nazis were particularly secretive about the final solution.
They threatened genocide before the war and made vague references to it during the war.
In Goebbels newspaper articles and radio speeches for example.

The historic responsibility of world Jewry for the outbreak and widening of this war has been proven so clearly that it does not need to be talked about any further. The Jews wanted war, and now they have it. But the Führer’s prophecy of 30 January 1939 to the German Reichstag is also being fulfilled: If international finance Jewry should succeed in plunging the world into war once again, the result will be not the Bolshevization of the world and thereby the victory of the Jews, but rather the destruction of the Jewish race in Europe.

We are seeing the fulfillment of the prophecy. The Jews are receiving a penalty that is certainly hard, but more than deserved. World Jewry erred in adding up the forces available to it for this war, and now is gradually experiencing the destruction that it planned for us, and would have carried out without a second thought if it had possessed the ability. It is perishing according its own law: “An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.”

Goebbels on the Jews (1941)

A 1942 article by Joseph Goebbels attacking the Jews.

research.calvin.edu

The War and the Jews

An essay by Joseph Goebbels that attacks the Jews.

research.calvin.edu

 

[WhalleyRange]

Funny how so many crybaby cowards on the right whine endlessly about free speech being under attack then destroy anyone who exposes genocidal far right Zionism.

Gutless.
Crybaby.
Cowards.

I'm taking my ball home to mummy

 

[gashonthenail]

It's not actually true that the Nazis were particularly secretive about the final solution.
They threatened genocide before the war and made vague references to it during the war.
In Goebbels newspaper articles and radio speeches for example.

The historic responsibility of world Jewry for the outbreak and widening of this war has been proven so clearly that it does not need to be talked about any further. The Jews wanted war, and now they have it. But the Führer’s prophecy of 30 January 1939 to the German Reichstag is also being fulfilled: If international finance Jewry should succeed in plunging the world into war once again, the result will be not the Bolshevization of the world and thereby the victory of the Jews, but rather the destruction of the Jewish race in Europe.

We are seeing the fulfillment of the prophecy. The Jews are receiving a penalty that is certainly hard, but more than deserved. World Jewry erred in adding up the forces available to it for this war, and now is gradually experiencing the destruction that it planned for us, and would have carried out without a second thought if it had possessed the ability. It is perishing according its own law: “An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.”

Goebbels on the Jews (1941)

A 1942 article by Joseph Goebbels attacking the Jews.

research.calvin.edu

The War and the Jews

An essay by Joseph Goebbels that attacks the Jews.

research.calvin.edu

Are you ok? You sound a bit crazy.
You do realise that when Hitler and Goebbels talked about declaring war against 'the Jews' they were talking about what they thought were the international cabal of Jews and capitalists who controlled countries like France, the UK, and the USA in order to foist the Versailles Treaty on Germany?
Don't get me wrong, in many ways the Holocaust took place 'in plain sight', all genocides do, but that the Nazis had a policy of trying to 'hide' the true nature of the ghettos and the camps via propaganda is well documented. Have you heard of Theresienstadt?

Anticipating that some Germans might find the official story that Jews were being sent to the East to perform labor to be implausible in reference to elderly Jews, disabled war veterans, and prominent musicians or artists, the Nazi regime cynically publicized the existence of Theresienstadt as a residential community, where elderly or disabled German and Austrian Jews could "retire" and live out their lives in peace and safety. This fiction was invented for domestic consumption within the Greater German Reich. In reality, the ghetto served as a transit camp for deportations to ghettos and killing centers in German-occupied Poland, and killing sites in the German-occupied Baltic States and Belorussia.

In 1944, succumbing to pressure from the International Red Cross and the Danish Red Cross following the deportation of nearly 400 Danish Jews to Theresienstadt in the autumn of 1943, SS officials permitted Red Cross representatives to visit Theresienstadt. By this time, news of the mass murder of Jews had reached the world press and Germany was losing the war. As an elaborate hoax, the SS authorities accelerated deportations from the ghetto shortly before the visit, and ordered the remaining prisoners to "beautify" the ghetto: prisoners had to plant gardens, paint houses, and renovate barracks. The SS authorities staged social and cultural events for the visiting dignitaries. After the Red Cross officials left, the SS resumed deportations from Theresienstadt, which did not end until October 1944. In all, the Germans deported nearly 90,000 German, Austrian, Czech, Slovak, Dutch, and Hungarian Jews from the camp-ghetto to killing sites and centers in the “East”; only a few thousand survived. More than 30,000 more prisoners died in Theresienstadt itself, mostly from disease or starvation.

Deceiving the Public

The Nazis frequently used propaganda to disguise their political aims and deceive the German and international public.

encyclopedia.ushmm.org

Whereas compare the above propaganda effort to the Hamas Charter:

'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him.' (Article 7)

 

[gashonthenail]

Isn't it a false dichotomy, though? The Nazis were not contending against the Jews as an oppressor state with superior military might. The proper analogy would be if Jews in a concentration camp had somehow managed to get guns smuggled in and gone on a murderous rampage against a neighboring village where Nazi youths were having a dance festival.

The asymmetrical nature of what happened on 7th October wasn't the issue though that Douglas Murray was raising - but the fact that the killing of Jews was celebrated so publicly. It is frankly disturbing that in the 21st century hatred of Jews has become so blatant again. Stephen Fry recently quoted Conor Cruise O'Brien on the subject - antisemtism is a light sleeper. Clearly events in Gaza are shooting it up with methamphetamine and steroids.