Richard Attenborough dies - Morrissey statement at true-to-you.net

Link posted by an anonymous person (original post):

Richard Attenborough dies - true-to-you.net
26 August 2014

"I was thrilled beyond words to have met Richard Attenborough, who, of course, played Pinkie in Brighton Rock (1947), a central theme of my song Now my heart is full. When I met Sir Richard he was delightful, and I asked him if Brighton Rock seemed like a hundred years ago. He replied 'Oh, much more than that ...'.
I also had the extraordinary pleasure of meeting the recently deceased Lauren Bacall ... so beautiful, so cautious ... and so sad that her death was overshadowed by that of Robin Williams. It was Lauren, not Robin, who changed motion picture history. Yet modern media has an odd way of forgetting the more senior servers of the arts. Dora Bryan, whom I knew personally in the late 80s, and who also died in recent weeks, had pitifully slim attention from the British news media, yet her talents were a treasured staple of British life throughout the 1950s, 1960s and beyond. Dora had agreed to introduce the Smiths onstage at the London Palladium in 1986, but at the last minute her agent asked for a fee which we, the Smiths, just couldn't afford.
However, in our X-factory society, it seems that anyone who has NOT appeared on Big Brother just isn't worth remembering by the British media ... alas."

Morrissey.

---

Related media:

• Morrissey Laments That Robin Williams 'Overshadowed' Other Celebrity Deaths - Billboard. Link posted by BrummieBoy.
• Morrissey Bashes Public Response to Robin Williams' Death - Spin. Link posted by BrummieBoy.

 

[Peterb]

Yes. Have the answer? An answer?

I'm not sure if this is a question that I would find it useful or interesting to consider.
However, I would be interested in seeing how you and Keene would respond.

 

[realitybites]

I'm not sure if this is a question that I would find it useful or interesting to consider.
However, I would be interested in seeing how you and Keene would respond.

I think Keene will have a great answer. I bet he has read:The Denial of Death and other existentialist types of books. I have written my thoughts about meaning and death many times over the years. One of my favorite books on finding meaning is Man's Search For Meaning by Viktor Frankl.

 

[keene]

Yes. Have the answer? An answer?

If you remember RB awhile back I mentioned that I felt that "heroes" of some type sustain us.

This whole conversation started when david t. posted the latest missive from Morrissey concerning the passing of some "heroes" of his. What cranked up some of us especially BrummieBoy, was the perceived slight towards Robin Williams passing.
Crystal said it was rude. Of course he shouldn't have said it the way he did.

Robin Williams is just as much a hero to some as Lauren Bacall is to Morrissey. But Nature and Death doesn't see heroes like we do....and death will claim us all. It brings on the sadness, anger, panic, confusion and other emotions that are obvious on this thread. We who are on this site view Morrissey as a kind of hero and when he reveals himself as human and says some things we don't like it pisses some of us off.

RB touched on the thing that we are confronted with.two posts back.

Why are we on this Planet? How do we come here? Where are we going?.....Why do we have to face the "Smiler With Knife"....Where are we going and why now?

I think there are two big fears that we humans face....fear of death...and fear of madness. Of course some people can repress everything and keep their noses to the grindstone and move on. Morrissey is not so fortunate....and neither am I.

I still haven't found what I'm looking for....Listening to Morrissey and others and work... keeps me going....how about you?

 

[keene]

I think Keene will have a great answer. I bet he has read:The Denial of Death and other existentialist types of books. I have written my thoughts about meaning and death many times over the years. One of my favorite books on finding meaning is Man's Search For Meaning by Viktor Frankl.

I just ordered "Denial of Death" From Amazon...that's pretty cool you mentioned that.

I've Been reading Freud and one of his colleages...Otto Rank.

Otto Rank wrote a book in the thirties, called "Art and Artists" That book has helped me a lot.

He talks about Neurotics...Artists and Heroes....love it.

 

[Peterb]

If you remember RB awhile back I mentioned that I felt that "heroes" of some type sustain us.

This whole conversation started when david t. posted the latest missive from Morrissey concerning the passing of some "heroes" of his. What cranked up some of us especially BrummieBoy, was the perceived slight towards Robin Williams passing.
Crystal said it was rude. Of course he shouldn't have said it the way he did.

Robin Williams is just as much a hero to some as Lauren Bacall is to Morrissey. But Nature and Death doesn't see heroes like we do....and death will claim us all. It brings on the sadness, anger, panic, confusion and other emotions that are obvious on this thread. We who are on this site view Morrissey as a kind of hero and when he reveals himself as human and says some things we don't like it pisses some of us off.

RB touched on the thing that we are confronted with.two posts back.

Why are we on this Planet? How do we come here? Where are we going?.....Why do we have to face the "Smiler With Knife"....Where are we going and why now?

I think there are two big fears that we humans face....fear of death...and fear of madness. Of course some people can repress everything and keep their noses to the grindstone and move on. Morrissey is not so fortunate....and neither am I.

I still haven't found what I'm looking for....Listening to Morrissey and others and work... keeps me going....how about you.

All respect to you and Jehne but you illustrate for me here why I cannot really engage with this.
You ask "Why are we on this Planet? How do we come here? Where are we going?".
Why do you think there should be any answers to these questions?

 

[realitybites]

If you remember RB awhile back I mentioned that I felt that "heroes" of some type sustain us.

This whole conversation started when david t. posted the latest missive from Morrissey concerning the passing of some "heroes" of his. What cranked up some of us especially BrummieBoy, was the perceived slight towards Robin Williams passing.
Crystal said it was rude. Of course he shouldn't have said it the way he did.

Robin Williams is just as much a hero to some as Lauren Bacall is to Morrissey. But Nature and Death doesn't see heroes like we do....and death will claim us all. It brings on the sadness, anger, panic, confusion and other emotions that are obvious on this thread. We who are on this site view Morrissey as a kind of hero and when he reveals himself as human and says some things we don't like it pisses some of us off.

Hi. Thanks for responding.

I claimed I have no heroes. You might find this polemic I wrote a while back to be of interest: Morrissey is Not My Hero.

RB touched on the thing that we are confronted with.two posts back.

Why are we on this Planet? How do we come here? Where are we going?.....Why do we have to face the "Smiler With Knife"....Where are we going and why now?

I think there are two big fears that we humans face....fear of death...and fear of madness. Of course some people can repress everything and keep their noses to the grindstone and move on. Morrissey is not so fortunate....and neither am I.

I still haven't found what I'm looking for....Listening to Morrissey and others and work... keeps me going....how about you.

I am not searching. I have my answers. Have had them for a few years now. Went through an existential crisis three years ago that lasted a good six months. Once I pulled out of it, I was healed. Settled. Happy.

 

[Peterb]

Hi. Thanks for responding.

I claimed I have no heroes. You might find this polemic I wrote a while back to be of interest: Morrissey is Not My Hero.



I am not searching. I have my answers. Have had them for a few years now. Went through an existential crisis three years ago that lasted a good six months. Once I pulled out of it, I was healed. Settled. Happy.

But Jehne, what about:
"How do we find subjective meaning in life when the inevitability of death, which could possibly render life without objective purpose, looms in the mind like a pervasive, hideous parasite?"
You have found the subjective meaning in life?
I'd be impressed if you managed to find any subjective meaning.
In fact, I'd be grateful if you could tell me what 'subjective meaning' means?

 

[realitybites]

But Jehne, what about:
"How do we find subjective meaning in life when the inevitability of death, which could possibly render life without objective purpose, looms in the mind like a pervasive, hideous parasite?"
You have found the subjective meaning in life?
I'd be impressed if you managed to find any subjective meaning.
In fact, I'd be grateful if you could tell me what 'subjective meaning' means?

Yes, I have found subjective meaning. That is all one can hope to find as there is no objective meaning to life. We must all, as individuals, decide what the meaning of our life is. What gives it purpose in a world without gods or destiny or fate or karma? How do we decide--daily--that life is worth living and better than death--nothingness? It is a struggle for many--those who tune in. Robin Williams answered the question. Decided that life was no longer better than death. To me, no matter how bad things get, life is something rather than nothing--death. This makes it meaningful to me--as a subject. My life is mine to live and to give meaning to. Nobody else can do that for me. It is both my freedom and my burden.

 

[Peterb]

Yes, I have found subjective meaning. That is all one can hope to find as there is no objective meaning to life. We must all, as individuals, decide what the meaning of our life is. What gives it purpose in a world without gods or destiny or fate or karma? How do we decide--daily--that life is worth living and better than death--nothingness? It is a struggle for many--those who tune in. Robing Williams answered the question. Decided that life was no longer better than death. To me, no matter how bad things get, life is something rather than nothing--death. This makes it meaningful to me--as a subject. My life is mine to live and to give meaning to. Nobody else can do that for me. It is both my freedom and my burden.

You sound like a strong person with a solid and consistent philosophy, which is why I like you.
This works for you and that is beyond excellent.
I cannot relate with the stuff about meaning though.
I do not begrudge it in you (or I would guess Keene).
But 'meaning' and 'purpose' are just words to me.
Life is worth living because that is the only thing life forms can do. There is no alternative .
Live, be kind to others and yourself, have a giggle, find a good dealer;
Are these the 'meanings' you humans speak of?

 

[Nicole333]

His criticism should have been directed at culture/society, not at the media. Exponentially more people know/care about Robin Williams than Lauren Bacall and Richard Attenborough...as such, the media naturally will give more coverage to what people are more interested in (i.e. Williams) as they are profit-driven and want to sell advertising. Right or wrong, that's the way they work.
I can understand Morrissey having a problem with the lack of fuss made about Bacall's and Attenborough's deaths, though. Most people in the U.S. have no idea who Bacall was (but can tell you all about the latest episode of "The Bachelor" and what color of panties Kim Kardashian wore yesterday) and likely only know Attenborough as "that old guy from Jurassic Park." Sad.

 

[keene]

You sound like a strong person with a solid and consistent philosophy, which is why I like you.
This works for you and that is beyond excellent.
I cannot relate with the stuff about meaning though.
I do not begrudge it in you (or I would guess Keene).
But 'meaning' and 'purpose' are just words to me.
Life is worth living because that is the only thing life forms can do. There is no alternative .
Live, be kind to others and yourself, have a giggle, find a good dealer;
Are these the 'meanings' you humans speak of?

I don't know about a good dealer...unless your at the tables in Vegas. But yes those are meanings.

Life is worth living to most people unless they reach the end of their rope like Robin Williams. Death is always an alternative. RB says she has found a subjective meaning to life...that means she has found her own meaning and has become her own "hero". This is something that has to be worked on everyday. Because she is and all of us are human.... and are subject to hurt others and ourselves... and will suffer pain and guilt from that.

I like what she says here, though. Living up to that subjective ideal is the challenge.

The problem of having "heroes" and investing too much energy in that person or thing is what you see with Morrissey's letter on TTY. One person's hero may be another person's villain or cad or whatever. Suicide also brings out some very strong feelings in all of us. I think because we all feel vulnerable to death and most of us don't want to go there....

 

[realitybites]

You sound like a strong person with a solid and consistent philosophy, which is why I like you.
This works for you and that is beyond excellent.
I cannot relate with the stuff about meaning though.
I do not begrudge it in you (or I would guess Keene).
But 'meaning' and 'purpose' are just words to me.
Life is worth living because that is the only thing life forms can do. There is no alternative .
Live, be kind to others and yourself, have a giggle, find a good dealer;
Are these the 'meanings' you humans speak of?

They are the meanings I(we) speak of, indeed.

 

[keene]

They are the meanings I(we) speak of, indeed.

RB...what you wrote about Morrissey not being your hero...I agree with.

You said something about Morrissey not being a God or worthy of worship, that's true and I've said that many times here on SoLow. I think you are exactly right when you mention Morrissey making ridiculous statements.... he diminishes himself in the eyes of the world. That's why I say concentrate on the art more than the person behind it. We all diminish ourselves when we make ridiculous statements. We've all done that....

Only God...or Life...or Nature or the "Force" is worthy of worship and I guess we all do that in our own way.

Best Wishes.....as BrummieBoy would say.

 

[Peterb]

RB...what you wrote about Morrissey not being your hero...I agree with.

You said something about Morrissey not being a God or worthy of worship, that's true and I've said that many times here on SoLow. I think you are exactly right when you mention Morrissey making ridiculous statements.... he diminishes himself in the eyes of the world. That's why I say concentrate on the art more than the person behind it. We all diminish ourselves when we make ridiculous statements. We've all done that....

Only God...or Life...or Nature or the "Force" is worthy of worship and I guess we all do that in our own way.

Best Wishes.....as BrummieBoy would say.

I do so like the way we have negotiated our way through this little discussion.
Nice, intelligent people, good coffee and excellent biscuits (well I would have the last 2 if we chatting at my gaff).

 

[realitybites]

RB...what you wrote about Morrissey not being your hero...I agree with.

You said something about Morrissey not being a God or worthy of worship, that's true and I've said that many times here on SoLow. I think you are exactly right when you mention Morrissey making ridiculous statements.... he diminishes himself in the eyes of the world. That's why I say concentrate on the art more than the person behind it. We all diminish ourselves when we make ridiculous statements. We've all done that....

Only God...or Life...or Nature or the "Force" is worthy of worship and I guess we all do that in our own way.

Best Wishes.....as BrummieBoy would say.

Thanks for reading that entry. I think the only thing worthy of being worshiped is life itself. Each human life is valuable in its own way. And most likely cherished by someone--even if that someone is not the person him/herself.

 

[realitybites]

I don't know about a good dealer...unless your at the tables in Vegas. But yes those are meanings.

Life is worth living to most people unless they reach the end of their rope like Robin Williams. Death is always an alternative. RB says she has found a subjective meaning to life...that means she has found her own meaning and has become her own "hero". This is something that has to be worked on everyday. Because she is and all of us are human.... and are subject to hurt others and ourselves... and will suffer pain and guilt from that.

I like what she says here, though. Living up to that subjective ideal is the challenge.

The problem of having "heroes" and investing too much energy in that person or thing is what you see with Morrissey's letter on TTY. One person's hero may be another person's villain or cad or whatever. Suicide also brings out some very strong feelings in all of us. I think because we all feel vulnerable to death and most of us don't want to go there....

I suppose that is what I mean when I say that I am the center of my own universe. Does not mean I am selfish, however. Just means I have an internal locus of control and a vested interest in staying alive.

 

[realitybites]

I just ordered "Denial of Death" From Amazon...that's pretty cool you mentioned that.

I've Been reading Freud and one of his colleages...Otto Rank.

Otto Rank wrote a book in the thirties, called "Art and Artists" That book has helped me a lot.

He talks about Neurotics...Artists and Heroes....love it.

I hope you like the book. Maybe we can start a thread, once you get it, in Off-topic. I will reread it. I am certain others here have read it as well. Pretty famous book.

 

[Sidnettle]

I think we know who the attention seeker is. You are pathetic. Another little person.seeking fame on the forum. Which is nothing to get hyped about.
If you and the rest are happy to stand your ground give your name post a picture. Of course you won't you are all cowards. Who deserve to get the shit kicked out of them. Hateful little vermin

Did you used to be that annoying mouse person?

 

[Nicole333]

I don't think it's fair to say Morrissey makes ridiculous statements. That's an opinion. Care to disclose which statements he's made that you find ridiculous?
I don't think his statements are ridiculous at all. I think they are CONTROVERSIAL, because they push against the status quo. Historically, people who make such statements are labelled ridiculous...until whatever it is they've said becomes status quo, and then we label them "forward thinkers" and "heroes" while busily labelling a the new controversial people of the day as "ridiculous."
And so the cycle continues.

 

[keene]

I don't think it's fair to say Morrissey makes ridiculous statements. That's an opinion. Care to disclose which statements he's made that you find ridiculous?
I don't think his statements are ridiculous at all. I think they are CONTROVERSIAL, because they push against the status quo. Historically, people who make such statements are labelled ridiculous...until whatever it is they've said becomes status quo, and then we label them "forward thinkers" and "heroes" while busily labelling a the new controversial people of the day as "ridiculous."
And so the cycle continues.

Well...I don't remember the exact quote but after all of those kids and teachers were killed in Norway he made a remark comparing that murderous slaughter.... to McDonalds and Kentucky Fried Chicken. If that's not ridiculous it's at least in bad taste.

Comparing.... eating lamb to pedophilia. Ridiculous.or bad taste...whatever.

I don't care what he says because I know where he's coming from...and I understand. A lot of people don't understand and don't want to hear it.