Should Mike Joyce news be posted on Morrissey solo front page?

[Jukebox Jury]

The only reason I wouldn't have included the latest Joyce story is because it's a bit naff isn't it really? If he and Rourke were doing interesting things professionally I'd be up for hearing about them. As it is, I'm not really that interested in the latest wheeze they've found to wring the last few quid out of the stiff corpse of the Smiths.

I really don't think Mike would have got paid for filming a very small part in what is a locally produced and low budget play.
Happy to be corrected on that..... but if Clint Boon, Mani, Martin Coogan and the others who agreed to take part also got paid, the play would probably be bankrupt.

Jukebox Jury

 

[Oh my god. it's Robby!]

just to add, I'm not getting into the wrongs and the rights of the feud. I'm pretty critical of modern-day Moz so there's no way I'd dislike someone coz Moz told me to! (although it's worth noting that Marr hates Joyce almost as much as Moz).

well, I have read many of the facts of the case which , for me, helps put things in a better perspective than just hearing the obvious "pain" it has caused Morrissey. After all, just because he is hurt, does not mean he is in the right. However, given the cold & calculating way in which Joyce was able to execute his getting of so much more money than he could ever even imagine of getting other way. See, when you combine that with the completely biased nature of anything he might say in order to get that money. Well, its an easy leap from there to see Joyce as a kind of crook. As a matter of fact, in my own small way, I know exactly how much other people are willing to lie, twist facts, or leave ones out when it suits their side of a case.

I, myself have been in litigation more than once involving what was more than enough $ to make those then against me be willing to lie, again and again and again. Its a fascinating thing to be a part of. When you take the "high road" in matters of the law and money. Well, you must not be shocked when the other person does the opposite and is able to get the better of you.
I, like Morrissey, time and time again, reacted emotionally when people lied or tried to hurt me in some way simply because it served their interests and not mine. You cannot do that, as soon as the other side has psyched you out like that, then you are not likely to perform as well as you would have. Also, in court, judges are much more biased towards people who deliver testimony of even the most slanderous nature if the person giving it does so in a calm, cool, collected manner.
While on the other hand, getting upset at what others have said and showing how their attacks have made you feel is frowned upon. They think that makes you unreliable. Morrissey was manipulated into this type of thing as well.

personally, I'm just bored to the back teeth with Joyce Michael and really couldn't care less about what he's doing.

i like to know what he is up to, because i always hope to read that something bad has happened to him
no, not anything violent, just that he is not enjoying his ill gotten gains

but I was wondering how other people felt and it seems that most of you actually are genuinely interested in what he's up to.
which, frankly, is fair enough!

honestly, i dont think most here care either way and only a few want to know about Joyce because they are on his side...

 

[Lonsdale71]

well, I have read many of the facts of the case which , for me, helps put things in a better perspective than just hearing the obvious "pain" it has caused Morrissey. After all, just because he is hurt, does not mean he is in the right. However, given the cold & calculating way in which Joyce was able to execute his getting of so much more money than he could ever even imagine of getting other way. See, when you combine that with the completely biased nature of anything he might say in order to get that money. Well, its an easy leap from there to see Joyce as a kind of crook. As a matter of fact, in my own small way, I know exactly how much other people are willing to lie, twist facts, or leave ones out when it suits their side of a case.

I, myself have been in litigation more than once involving what was more than enough $ to make those then against me be willing to lie, again and again and again. Its a fascinating thing to be a part of. When you take the "high road" in matters of the law and money. Well, you must not be shocked when the other person does the opposite and is able to get the better of you.
I, like Morrissey, time and time again, reacted emotionally when people lied or tried to hurt me in some way simply because it served their interests and not mine. You cannot do that, as soon as the other side has psyched you out like that, then you are not likely to perform as well as you would have. Also, in court, judges are much more biased towards people who deliver testimony of even the most slanderous nature if the person giving it does so in a calm, cool, collected manner.
While on the other hand, getting upset at what others have said and showing how their attacks have made you feel is frowned upon. They think that makes you unreliable. Morrissey was manipulated into this type of thing as well.


i like to know what he is up to, because i always hope to read that something bad has happened to him
no, not anything violent, just that he is not enjoying his ill gotten gains


honestly, i dont think most here care either way and only a few want to know about Joyce because they are on his side...

Are you a solicitor? or a lawyer by any chance?

 

[Jukebox Jury]

honestly, i dont think most here care either way and only a few want to know about Joyce because they are on his side...

There are a few of us here (myself included) who are not on either side.... I am on the side of the music and the people who performed it.

The court case is completely different. Morrissey / Marr said ''this....'' Joyce (and Rourke to an extent) said ''that....'' The judge judged (twice). End of.

Jukebox Jury

 

[Danny_]

I really don't think Mike would have got paid for filming a very small part in what is a locally produced and low budget play.
Happy to be corrected on that..... but if Clint Boon, Mani, Martin Coogan and the others who agreed to take part also got paid, the play would probably be bankrupt.

Jukebox Jury

It doesn't really matter whether he got paid for this particular thing. It's still just him hawking himself as an ex-Smith and it's boring.

 

[lainey]

and to add a little more, I'd actually be more interested to know what people like Steven Street and Spencer Cobrin are up.
they're people who've created wonderful music with Moz so I'd love to hear their thoughts on the songs they co-wrote, and if there was any chance they could work together again...

agree with this and Alain and Gary too

 

[Jukebox Jury]

It doesn't really matter whether he got paid for this particular thing. It's still just him hawking himself as an ex-Smith and it's boring.

How about Mike and a few other well known local band members are putting something back into the arts of Manchester by supporting a locally produced play involving young people from North Manchester who otherwise may be engaging in anti social behaviour?

Jukebox Jury

 

[The Cat's Mother]

....honestly, i dont think most here care either way and only a few want to know about Joyce because they are on his side...

Bit of a sweeping generalisation there, Robby. Personally, I thought both sides needed a good slap. Doesn't affect my ongoing interest in the musical matters, though.

 

[Oh my god. it's Robby!]

Are you a solicitor? or a lawyer by any chance?

far from it now thankfully, but once long ago, I was going to go to law school
however, most of my knowledge comes from being in more than one bitter, long and costly legal battle with various people who once stood with me and not against me

but I have learned you really cannot trust people that you are no longer friendly with when it comes to matters of money or once "lawyers" become involved
not friends, lovers or even step-mothers
seriously, people like Mike Joyce who thought he was owed something
and who felt that he was looked down upon by someone like Morrissey
well, people like that are filled with a lot of resentment, i doubt Morrissey knew how much
and this resentment wil often drive them to go to any length to "get back at" the person they resent
on a certain level, they are not even responsible for this, the resentment can take control of them from time to time
or worse when lawyers become involved
since many are experts in knowing how to exploit their client's psyche

 

[Oh my god. it's Robby!]

Bit of a sweeping generalisation there, Robby. Personally, I thought both sides needed a good slap. Doesn't affect my ongoing interest in the musical matters, though.

my point was that, rabid Mike Joyce supporters are bit of a rarity here
acting like one @ Solo is kind of like the oldest troll in the book
and i remember when i 1st read:
http://true-to-you.net/morrissey_news_051130_01
that Morrissey was largely responding to what a few trolls have gone on about for years and years
but he(Moz) implied that he saw this place(at least then) as some kind of "haven" for those against him
which only made me have compassion for him in the end, since thats not only so clearly paranoid, but also means he is blind to much of the positive support most here feel regarding our Morrissey

 

[The Cat's Mother]

my point was that, rabid Mike Joyce supporters are bit of a rarity here
acting like one @ Solo is kind of like the oldest troll in the book
and i remember when i 1st read:
http://true-to-you.net/morrissey_news_051130_01
that Morrissey was largely responding to what a few trolls have gone on about for years and years
but he(Moz) implied that he saw this place(at least then) as some kind of "haven" for those against him
which only made me have compassion for him in the end, since thats not only so clearly paranoid, but also means he is blind to much of the positive support most here feel regarding our Morrissey

None of which should have any bearing on the even-handed reporting of what Morrissey's ex-associates are doing, career-wise. That's all I'm advocating here.

 

[Oh my god. it's Robby!]

None of which should have any bearing on the even-handed reporting of what Morrissey's ex-associates are doing, career-wise. That's all I'm advocating here.

That is what is done here I think.
&
I am also OK with Morrissey considering such even handedness as somehow against him

 

[mcrickson]

Where is Andy Ison when you need her
I'd love to hear here input about Rourkie right about now

 

[bored]

I don't get why people believe everything that Morrissey said about Joyce is 100% the truth. None of us were there. We don't know what happened. Morrissey's big list of monies given to Joyce in his statement on tty a few years back is his list from his point of view.

Morrissey complains about default judgments in his absence. That's why you need to keep your legal matters in order.

If I am out of the country and don't register my car and it expires during my time away and I come back and get a ticket for driving an unregistered car that is my fault. Not the fault of the DMV, not the fault of the police, not the fault of the airline who took me to where I went. I failed to take care of my own business.

Morrissey says Joyce said he'd take 10%.
Show the court the contract.
No contract?
Your fault again.

Morrissey wants to blame Joyce and the judge and anyone else but he won't take a single iota of responsibility for what happened.

Morrissey is a victim of himself, not Joyce. For anyone here to vilify Joyce because Morrissey didn't get his way over things he had complete control over but mishandled is pretty unfair.

If your complaint is Joyce is milking being an ex-Smith then at least you have an argument. To me, he is an ex-Smith and he should be able to leverage that. Just because your PhD is 20 years old doesn't mean you stop calling yourself "doctor".

PS: Robby, seriously, when writing a long post, you will get a lot more attention if you use proper use of sentence structure and spacing between paragraphs. I only skimmed your post because it was giving me a headache.

 

[The Cat's Mother]

That is what is done here I think.
&
I am also OK with Morrissey considering such even handedness as somehow against him

*sigh* You're just not strict enough with these pop star types, are you, Robby?

Where is Andy Ison when you need her

Humane!me hopes Andi has moved on with her life.

I'd love to hear here input about Rourkie right about now

Evil!me would love that, too.

 

[Oh my god. it's Robby!]

Morrissey says Joyce said he'd take 10%.
Show the court the contract.
No contract?
Your fault again.

Morrissey wants to blame Joyce and the judge and anyone else but he won't take a single iota of responsibility for what happened.

Morrissey is a victim of himself, not Joyce. For anyone here to vilify Joyce because Morrissey didn't get his way over things he had complete control over but mishandled is pretty unfair.

I agree with the part in bold 100% Morrissey should have known that without a written agreement, he would have to at least do whatever he could to stay on Joyce's good side or otherwise face the consequences legally and financially of Joyce ever not keeping his word on what he had agreed to take as a compensation.
However, Morrissey is not the first person to make this grave error, many people do it everyday. Why, just think of all the people that get married everyday without first getting a pre-nup that they really would have wanted to have but they were too afraid to ask or push the matter. Now obviously its their own fault when they get taken to the cleaners later, they knew the risks at least "theoretically".
Morrissey made the same kind of mistake, its the kind that comes from things like emotional immaturity which leads to the afflicted finding it difficult to be direct and deal with uncomfortable situations. Its pretty clear Moz suffers from a degree of that even now. In addition, I think he suffered from lacking the kind of cynicism you have bored which allows you to so easliy be a realist about the questionable value of trusting people to keep their word on matters of great import or their willingness to lie to get what they want, especially if its only another person's word against theirs.

Still though, some of us place great value on people being true to their word and only taking what they deserve, not in what they can get away with taking. Its the principle of the matter. So even though I am not dumb enough any longer to expect other people to care about things like their word being their bond or truth or matters I will simply call "honor". I villify someone like Joyce because he simply shouts out to me as the kind of person who has no honor. Which is why I do not think Morrissey should accept all the responsibilty for what happened since these matters of "honor" are no longer allowed to be handled in the appropriate way, like a duel!

people should have to defend with their life the kind of actions Mike Joyce initiated when he began his quest for more money from Morrissey and Marr almost 10 years after the band broke up


of course, Morrissey likely has different reasons for why he does not humble himself on these matters regarding Joyce
like for example how infuriating it must be to have to endure the public record basically stating in legalese that Joyce was the "victim" of swindel orchestrated by Morrissey
believe me, that sort of stuff sticks with you, the kind of character assasination Joyce's side pulled off on Morrissey likely helped them beat him, I am sure it also hurt his feelings

I know, I know, you probably are snickering at the mere idea of Moz's feelings mattering at all

 

[Jukebox Jury]

I don't get why people believe everything that Morrissey said about Joyce is 100% the truth. None of us were there. We don't know what happened. Morrissey's big list of monies given to Joyce in his statement on tty a few years back is his list from his point of view.

Morrissey complains about default judgments in his absence. That's why you need to keep your legal matters in order.

If I am out of the country and don't register my car and it expires during my time away and I come back and get a ticket for driving an unregistered car that is my fault. Not the fault of the DMV, not the fault of the police, not the fault of the airline who took me to where I went. I failed to take care of my own business.

Morrissey says Joyce said he'd take 10%.
Show the court the contract.
No contract?
Your fault again.

Morrissey wants to blame Joyce and the judge and anyone else but he won't take a single iota of responsibility for what happened.

Morrissey is a victim of himself, not Joyce. For anyone here to vilify Joyce because Morrissey didn't get his way over things he had complete control over but mishandled is pretty unfair.

If your complaint is Joyce is milking being an ex-Smith then at least you have an argument. To me, he is an ex-Smith and he should be able to leverage that. Just because your PhD is 20 years old doesn't mean you stop calling yourself "doctor".

Jukebox Jury

 

[Raphael Lambach]

I would think incorrect if we don't permit MJ news were posted here...

 

[Billtwasreallynowt]

I'm not at all interested in Mike Joyce.

I totally get where you are coming from Jukebox, and like all fans who became fans AFTER THe Smiths broke up, we've always been sold The Smiths as Marr/Moz, so it stands to reason that we're pretty apathetic to Joyceypoos.

I've voted No, for no reason other than I just don't care.
I won't be offended either way though
Peace

 

[Velvis]

It's time to forgive and forget...

C'mon all the arguments are settled - it's time to GET BACK TOGETHER!

Anyway in answer to the question - Yes! post his news here he was a Smith after all...