The message of Morrissey's music

[murder and desire]

Well i too hold grudges for years so i understand Morrissey.Why do you think Morrissey rejects people for fear of being rejected?I think its more complicated.And i dont think Morrissey would like to have the same lifestyle as Bowie-a family etc.Maybe Bowie is stronger than Morrissey but its because Morrissey is so sensitive we have this great music.

yes I know that.
You asked why I thought Bowie wouldn't care, I answered that question.
I too hold grudges for years ( I think I have one from age 3), as I say I am more of the Moz ilk.
I will say again though, I would rather be of the Bowie- just seems like a more rounded and enlightened life to me.
That just my take on it.
I will say this though I love nearly everyone of Morrisseys songs (it's only a couple of recent b side I don't like), I can't say the same for Bowie.

 

[Eraserhead]

yes I know that.
You asked why I thought Bowie wouldn't care, I answered that question.
I too hold grudges for years ( I think I have one from age 3), as I say I am more of the Moz ilk.
I will say again though, I would rather be of the Bowie- just seems like a more rounded and enlightened life to me.
That just my take on it.
I will say this though I love nearly everyone of Morrisseys songs (it's only a couple of recent b side I don't like), I can't say the same for Bowie.

It is common to think of human attributes such as bitterness, sorrow, anger, revenge and selfishness as negative, but Morrissey's subversive nature seems to celebrate these things. It is in part his world view that makes him interesting by going against common ways of thinking.
He even rebels against the notion of the artist reinventing and finding challenging ways to make music. It is almost perverse that he sticks to the same musical template, but i'm glad he does. It makes him what he is.

It's interesting that I saw Bowie on that tour, and for all his musical genius he couldn't match Morrissey's onstage charisma. There really is something about Morrissey as a performer that sets him apart, and therein lies his genius, I believe.

 

[murder and desire]

It is common to think of human attributes such as bitterness, sorrow, anger, revenge and selfishness as negative, but Morrissey's subversive nature seems to celebrate these things. It is in part his world view that makes him interesting by going against common ways of thinking.
He even rebels against the notion of the artist reinventing and finding challenging ways to make music. It is almost perverse that he sticks to the same musical template, but i'm glad he does. It makes him what he is.


It's interesting that I saw Bowie on that tour, and for all his musical genius he couldn't match Morrissey's onstage charisma. There really is something about Morrissey as a performer that sets him apart, and therein lies his genius, I believe.

Yes, but Bowie was past his Prime by then, he returned to it for the Heathen Lp.
Also, your talking from a Morrissey fan view point, I have heard Bowie fans say different things.
I myself, think Moz digs deeper (or did) but I was talking in general terms about Impact on music at the start.
As for making negative a positive, thats quite a teenage stand point, they are helpful in terms of art but not popping to the the news agent.

Who ever started this thread I am sorry for derailing it so.

 

[Eraserhead]

Yes, but Bowie was past his Prime by then, he returned to it for the Heathen Lp.
Also, your talking from a Morrissey fan view point, I have heard Bowie fans say different things.
I myself, think Moz digs deeper (or did) but I was talking in general terms about Impact on music at the start.
As for making negative a positive, thats quite a teenage stand point, they are helpful in terms of art but not popping to the the news agent.

Who ever started this thread I am sorry for derailing it so.

I disagree. Outside was an excellent, hugely underrated album. The music was as inventive and exciting as anything Bowie has done before or since.

I was just pointing out that Morrissey's insistence on childish behaviour goes against the grain of what we consider adult life to be, but it is self concious and therefore anarchic in a subtle kind of way.

 

[murder and desire]

I disagree. Outside was an excellent, hugely underrated album. The music was as inventive and exciting as anything Bowie has done before or since.

I was just pointing out that Morrissey's insistence on childish behaviour goes against the grain of what we consider adult life to be, but it is self concious and therefore anarchic in a subtle kind of way.

Do you think Outside was good, really? Actually you are not alone, a number of people rate that LP, I just can't get into it. Plus, his hair and cloths looked silly.
I would have said the Buddha of suburbia was the start of his return to form but i think he just saw what Suede were doing (as did Moz on your Arsenal) and thought I will return to the 70s.
I agree with what you say about Morrisseys behavior to a degree. Still my first point still stands that Moz is a less rounded person than Bowie (in my mind).
But that said I see nothing wrong with the way Morrissey acts, he is aware that he can be hard work, he is typical of anyone who had a youthful trauma and has, lets say, mood swings.

 

[Media Whore]

But that said I see nothing wrong with the way Morrissey acts, he is aware that he can be hard work, he is typical of anyone who had a youthful trauma and has, lets say, mood swings.

This implies that Morrissey has had a "youthful trauma". What trauma is that?

 

[murder and desire]

This implies that Morrissey has had a "youthful trauma". What trauma is that?

He was/is a sensitive soul not finding much worth in the world around him, his friend committed suicide, the fact he didn't connect with his father and his father walked out.
All these things can be a sort trauma and helped lead to him depression (I think).

I didn't mean to sound like I had unknown knowledge about his youth

 

[Media Whore]

He was/is a sensitive soul not finding much worth in the world around him, his friend committed suicide, the fact he didn't connect with his father and his father walked out.
All these things can be a sort trauma and helped lead to him depression (I think).

I didn't mean to sound like I had unknown knowledge about his youth

I see. I didn't know about his friend committing suicide or his father walking out. Has he spoken about it? Where did you discover this?

 

[Eraserhead]

He was/is a sensitive soul not finding much worth in the world around him, his friend committed suicide, the fact he didn't connect with his father and his father walked out.
All these things can be a sort trauma and helped lead to him depression (I think).

I didn't mean to sound like I had unknown knowledge about his youth

That's weird. Although i've read several books on Moz I wasn't aware of a friends suicide. Maybe I forgot or it was somehow not covered in those books?

 

[Worm]

He was/is a sensitive soul not finding much worth in the world around him, his friend committed suicide, the fact he didn't connect with his father and his father walked out.
All these things can be a sort trauma and helped lead to him depression (I think).

I didn't mean to sound like I had unknown knowledge about his youth

These and other events did not cause his depression, exactly. It is more accurate to say these were signs through which were revealed to him the emptiness of existence, the futility of emotional entanglements, and the certainty that loneliness is the final, inescapable, and defining fact of the human condition.

 

[murder and desire]

These and other events did not cause his depression, exactly. It is more accurate to say these were signs through which were revealed to him the emptiness of existence, the futility of emotional entanglements, and the certainty that loneliness is the final, inescapable, and defining fact of the human condition.

I didn't say they did cause it. I meant they were part of the wall paper of the journey to it.
I was typing rather quickly and I didn't explain, there are a few grammar mistakes and what not, no wonder you may have got the wrong idea.

I myself think you know full well what I was saying, you just decided to have a say- faire enough.

 

[murder and desire]

I see. I didn't know about his friend committing suicide or his father walking out. Has he spoken about it? Where did you discover this?

I read about it in an early interviews or at least one

 

[Worm]

I myself think you know full well what I was saying, you just decided to have a say- faire enough.

I wasn't contradicting you. I just wanted to add a touch of optimism to the board.

 

[murder and desire]

I wasn't contradicting you. I just wanted to add a touch of optimism to the board.

Amusing.

As for the friend who opted for death, I think that happened around the time of his early teens.
There was also an awful "event" that he referred to in a couple of interviews- I have no idea what this event was, it was something to do with his family though.

I thought this stuff was common knowledge.

I have always thought the greatest shame about Morrissey was that he stopped being so open in interviews.
He used to be so fantastic in interviews, still I understand why things changed. There are only so many misquotes and stitch ups one can take.

 

[Media Whore]

I read about it in an early interviews or at least one

Thanks. I remain dubious. Not of the messenger, just of the content.

 

[murder and desire]

Thanks. I remain dubious. Not of the messenger, just of the content.

Maybe it's best to be dubious of both. It was Morrissey himself who mentioned it- though as we know that means nothing

 

[Media Whore]

Maybe it's best to be dubious of both. It was Morrissey himself who mentioned it- though as we know that means nothing

I question if he even said it.

 

[murder and desire]

I question if he even said it.

As I recall (and this is a distant memory), the friend was female- I remember this as I also had a female friend who took the same rout.

I do hope I haven't gone bonkers

 

[Gregor Samsa]

As I recall (and this is a distant memory), the friend was female- I remember this as I also had a female friend who took the same rout.

I do hope I haven't gone bonkers

All of this is supposed to be true. He has addressed it in interviews. It as also brushed upon in Severed Alliance. And according to that book he had another female friend who died of leukemia (sic?).

 

[Media Whore]

As I recall (and this is a distant memory), the friend was female- I remember this as I also had a female friend who took the same rout.

I do hope I haven't gone bonkers

My memory of the story is he had a friend that was ill and passed away. I'm also not sure about his family being abandoned by his father. Divorce is different than "walking out". Or perhaps my understanding of the term is flawed.

I don't for a moment doubt that you read it somewhere, more facts might have been constructed to give a greater dramatic edge to the article, particularly in those early years.