I must say it. Newer Moz better than older Moz

[Anonymous]

For sure the lyrics have improved from southpaw but I think maladjusted had some good ones like trouble loves me. If we're talking about the reissue the lyrics to post and he cried are both good Imo and Satan rsjected my soul is really funny to me as is now I am a was. I like alma matters as well really though I get that it's a bit slighter

 

[marred]

I think sometimes on this board there are signs of nostalgia towards not only the old stuff, but also towards any musicians no longer in Morrissey's band. The esteem they are held in now has no real connection with how they were perceived at the time though. Southpaw Grammar and Maladjusted both got a very mediocre reception when they were released and nearly killed Morrissey's career.

It's interesting to read the hate for the past four albums here, considering the positive reception they were all given in the press. No matter what people think of Jesse Tobias though, I think it would be difficult for people to argue with the fact that the lyrics in general have improved from You are the Quarry onwards compared with the likes of Dagenham Dave, Best Friend on the Payroll, Alma Matters, Roy's Keen etc.

I don't think any Morrissey fan cares how those albums were perceived at the time. All that mattered and still matters is buying the album, getting home and pressing play. At no time in the past or present have any of the press articles on said albums made a difference to my listening pleasure. I couldn't give a shit how the media saw them and even less now as entrance into that field is a very low bar.

A career is either killed or it's not. There is no nearly killed. I think it's pointless to argue about lyrical improvement re the four songs you've cherry picked from those two albums. I could do the same thing for Quarry with America Is Not The World and I could choose some more but I can't be bothered.

 

[Flibberty]

I don't think any Morrissey fan cares how those albums were perceived at the time. All that mattered and still matters is buying the album, getting home and pressing play. At no time in the past or present have any of the press articles on said albums made a difference to my listening pleasure. I couldn't give a shit how the media saw them and even less now as entrance into that field is a very low bar.

I wasn't only talking about the media reception but also the fan reaction.

A career is either killed or it's not. There is no nearly killed. I think it's pointless to argue about lyrical improvement re the four songs you've cherry picked from those two albums. I could do the same thing for Quarry with America Is Not The World and I could choose some more but I can't be bothered.

Fine but I think the improvement is clear based upon all of the songs on those albums as a whole. Southpaw Grammar, apart from the opening track maybe (no coincidence that these were the only lyrics Morrissey included with the album), has very little of lyrical interest. Maladjusted was an improvement but still has several low points and is Morrissey at his vaguest.

 

[bhops]

No.

 

[beardedsteven]

If you go by iTunes play counts then Maladjusted is my fave Morrissey. I never understand the dislike for it! (Obviously my high school plays of Viva Hate would outrank this in a heartbeat...). I think he could never top the Viva Hate and Bona Drag era singles but I do like the 2003 and post albums. I think Ringleader is the strongest. World Peace has a lot of good moments but it needs some trimming and I don't need to hear him sing about beefaroni please.

 

[Vegan]

If you go by iTunes play counts then Maladjusted is my fave Morrissey. I never understand the dislike for it! (Obviously my high school plays of Viva Hate would outrank this in a heartbeat...). I think he could never top the Viva Hate and Bona Drag era singles but I do like the 2003 and post albums. I think Ringleader is the strongest. World Peace has a lot of good moments but it needs some trimming and I don't need to hear him sing about beefaroni please.

My first copy of Southpaw was the re-issued remaster and I enjoyed it from the jump. I had purchased Vauxhall all them years ago but other than Bona Drag I hadn't heard any other Morrissey. Looking at the original tracklist and sequence of SP I think the re-issue is an an improvement. "Papa" Jack and "Roy's Keen" are mediocre. BTW Moz isn't actually singing about "beefaroni" the way you seem to suggest. As you know he is a vegan but maybe you were taking the piss. "I'm Not A Man" is currently in my Top 10 Moz/Smiths song list.

 

[Anonymous]

Older is better. My eyes unabashedly fixated on his chest. I believe at the show too.

Clip from JTR NYE

 

[Anonymous]

My first copy of Southpaw was the re-issued remaster and I enjoyed it from the jump. I had purchased Vauxhall all them years ago but other than Bona Drag I hadn't heard any other Morrissey. Looking at the original tracklist and sequence of SP I think the re-issue is an an improvement. "Papa" Jack and "Roy's Keen" are mediocre. BTW Moz isn't actually singing about "beefaroni" the way you seem to suggest. As you know he is a vegan but maybe you were taking the piss. "I'm Not A Man" is currently in my Top 10 Moz/Smiths song list.

For me the reissue of southpaw made ir bearable. I love honey you know where to find me. If you Haven yet try arsenal as it's very good. I. Sure you have by now but it's worth suggesting

 

[marred]

I wasn't only talking about the media reception but also the fan reaction.



Fine but I think the improvement is clear based upon all of the songs on those albums as a whole. Southpaw Grammar, apart from the opening track maybe (no coincidence that these were the only lyrics Morrissey included with the album), has very little of lyrical interest. Maladjusted was an improvement but still has several low points and is Morrissey at his vaguest.

It's clear to you which is fine, but it has nothing to do with how I see those two albums. What fan reception are you referring to?

I saw Morrissey in Battersea and Chester in '97 on the Maladjusted tour which was stacked with songs from those two albums and I can't remember a concert with as much energy as that. This was one of the gigs where people actually move and they were jumping around so much that the floor was pulsating so even if you wanted to stand still you had no choice but to pulsate along with the floor.

If you read my earlier post again I have nothing bad to say about the recent albums at all. Plus the recent albums have been the ones he's actually bothered to tour Australia with and I've gone overseas to enjoy, so they are a huge part of my Morrissey experience. I am constantly defending YOR and Ringleader and WPINOYB on this forum. Wait, what were we arguing about again?

The lyrics on Southpaw Grammar are from The Teachers Are Afraid Of The Pupils, not the song Southpaw.

After all that SG, Mal talk I'm going to go and list to those albums now.

 

[Flibberty]

It's clear to you which is fine, but it has nothing to do with how I see those two albums. What fan reception are you referring to?

I saw Morrissey in Battersea and Chester in '97 on the Maladjusted tour which was stacked with songs from those two albums and I can't remember a concert with as much energy as that. This was one of the gigs where people actually move and they were jumping around so much that the floor was pulsating so even if you wanted to stand still you had no choice but to pulsate along with the floor.

If you read my earlier post again I have nothing bad to say about the recent albums at all. Plus the recent albums have been the ones he's actually bothered to tour Australia with and I've gone overseas to enjoy, so they are a huge part of my Morrissey experience. I am constantly defending YOR and Ringleader and WPINOYB on this forum. Wait, what were we arguing about again?

Well, I should say first of all that I don't see these posts as an argument so I hope that they haven't been taken that way. It's cool that Vegan started an on-topic thread and that we can discuss the music - a rarity on this board!

I saw Morrissey in Chester sports hall too (still amuses me that they call it an arena!) and I agree that there was good energy at the show. I personally always thought that was partly due to the fact that he only played two shows in the UK that year - a sign in itself - the audience was mainly made up of hardcore fans. And because everybody, Morrissey included, were a lot younger back then.

I remember the fan reception from the fanzines at the time and also simply the fact that the fanbase got so much smaller during that period. I do remember the general comments when Maladjusted was released were of relief as Morrissey had actually bothered to write some lyrics this time.

The lyrics on Southpaw Grammar are from The Teachers Are Afraid Of The Pupils, not the song Southpaw.

After all that SG, Mal talk I'm going to go and list to those albums now.

Yes, that is what I posted as 'The Teachers Are Afraid Of The Pupils' was the original opening track.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

Maladjusted is one of the most underrated albums by anyone's standard. It's warm, deeply personal, honest (at least to my ears) and with some great melodies. It's my second favourite album, after V&I. The reissue is essential.

As for Moz being better now post 2003... Hard to say. The production often lacks (except for WP), as well as the melodies to some extent (at least on ROTT and YOR). The lyrics...are different now. More straightforward, which is not necessarily a bad thing at all. His themes are often the same, but presented in a straightforward way that somehow does not lack any of the wit or brilliance of yesteryear. His vocals are often stronger than ever. So is his live shows. And there is a seriousness to his latter day output which I like.

If I were to rank his studio albums it would look something like this:
1. V&I
2. Maladjusted
3. YATQ
4. WP (if I am allowed to include its bonus disc)
5. Your Arsenal
6. Viva Hate
7. Years of Refusal
8. SG
9. ROTT
10. Kill Uncle

Half of his 2000's output is in my top 5, half is in the bottom half. Seems reasonable. But it's worth mentioning that only V&I and Maladj. feel superior and above any of the others. I like all of the other ones just as much, and I had a hard time ranking them. It could just as well be quite different.

 

[beardedsteven]

My first copy of Southpaw was the re-issued remaster and I enjoyed it from the jump. I had purchased Vauxhall all them years ago but other than Bona Drag I hadn't heard any other Morrissey. Looking at the original tracklist and sequence of SP I think the re-issue is an an improvement. "Papa" Jack and "Roy's Keen" are mediocre. BTW Moz isn't actually singing about "beefaroni" the way you seem to suggest. As you know he is a vegan but maybe you were taking the piss. "I'm Not A Man" is currently in my Top 10 Moz/Smiths song list.

I do understand he's not actually singing about beefaroni. Still, that line makes me cringe in the same way I cringe whenever he sings about the explosive legs between his legs. Still great songs otherwise though!

 

[Vegan]

I do understand he's not actually singing about beefaroni. Still, that line makes me cringe in the same way I cringe whenever he sings about the explosive legs between his legs. Still great songs otherwise though!

Well yeah I also find those lyrics daft. I also cringe over "bulbous salutation" but I DO buy into the notion that the vicious criticism of the novel is at least partially motivated by dislike for the author. Lots of people don't like his outspokenness. I know from experience that many non-Vegans react to a Pro-Vegan post with petulance and rage. The novel is not his greatest work though but the vitriol against it is suspicious.

 

[Anonymous]

I also think the novels writing fits into a few specific styles of writing. Sure I of course think a lot of criticism was to do to people waiting for a chance to be critical but I also think some just had very specific expectations of him writing some tortured long story featuring a melancholy loner figure they could all see themselves in and when he sorta write the opposite with a more objective storyline featuring character in America they didn't relate to that also soured some people. Some also just like more straightforward prose and that's there thing

 

[Vegan]

I also think the novels writing fits into a few specific styles of writing. Sure I of course think a lot of criticism was to do to people waiting for a chance to be critical but I also think some just had very specific expectations of him writing some tortured long story featuring a melancholy loner figure they could all see themselves in and when he sorta write the opposite with a more objective storyline featuring character in America they didn't relate to that also soured some people. Some also just like more straightforward prose and that's there thing

I think your onto something here but we already have "Autobiography" about a tortured, melancholy, self-deprecating loner figure

 

[Anonymous]

I think your onto something here but we already have "Autobiography" about a tortured, melancholy, self-deprecating loner figure

Exactly and to write a fictitious rewrite of it would be not a good idea Imo. Well have to wait for the novelization of Steven to come I guess

 

[Vegan]

Exactly and to write a fictitious rewrite of it would be not a good idea Imo. Well have to wait for the novelization of Steven to come I guess

To be honest I'm rather surprised there's a biopic in the works at this point. He's only 57. Seems too soon. Now the seemingly dead Freddie Mercury biopic would have been appropriate since we have the full story.

 

[Anonymous]

To be honest I'm rather surprised there's a biopic in the works at this point. He's only 57. Seems too soon. Now the seemingly dead Freddie Mercury biopic would have been appropriate since we have the full story.

Yeah but it's not a biopic on his whole life, it's a story based on his early youth or is there another one I'm just not aware of that's in development about his entire life. I imagine the whole story of those years is done unless we're getting supe metaphysical about something. Mercury would be an interesting story but at this point I don't know how many people would be interested just based on the subject

 

[marred]

To be honest I'm rather surprised there's a biopic in the works at this point. He's only 57. Seems too soon. Now the seemingly dead Freddie Mercury biopic would have been appropriate since we have the full story.

The film is going to cover a few years of his life. It's pre Smiths so it could be wrapped up in a tidy 75 minutes.

 

[nicky wire's legs]

is it just going to be him watching tv?