Let's review the evidence. Is Morrissey racist?

[crotty32]

i do not believe that morrissey is racist,he has stated things and made comments that are subjective and people take what they want from them,he is entitled to his views and he is free to express them,having a opinion puts yourself in the firing line and as such you are a target,earlier quotes state that he has questionable views and imply that this is a bad thing i dispute this as dogma resticts free speech and expression,

 

[Raphael Lambach]

i do not believe that morrissey is racist,he has stated things and made comments that are subjective and people take what they want from them,he is entitled to his views and he is free to express them,having a opinion puts yourself in the firing line and as such you are a target,earlier quotes state that he has questionable views and imply that this is a bad thing i dispute this as dogma resticts free speech and expression,

I can't help discussing this subject. And I cant think that call people "subspicies" isn't subjective and to declare that England has been invaded by prople from abroad isn't subjective too. I won't judge him, He's free to speak whatever he wants,
I really hate they way Chinese treat dog and cats but we in our western cutlure kill cows whiose are sacred in Indian-hindu culture then we're not able to judge them.

 

[profitinyourpoetry]

zzzzzzzzz

 

[SparkleBoy]

Re: urrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh

For god's sake, you should read this thread

For f*** sake, you should stop being so f***ing rude and telling somebody to read something from four f***ing years ago.

Harsh Truth, you are SO on the money.

On another note, I am actually hunting for more hearsay, misquotes, and rumor to post in this thread to prove Moz is a racist.

 

[Because]

Re: urrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh

I don't understand why, if he were racist, he would release a song called National Front Disco then spend a heck of a lot of money to dispute claims of racism.

I imagine he just overestimated the public/media's ability to understand anythingthat isn't simplified to the highest degree. Or, as some may say, he was just being controvertial for the sake of it.

He plainly isnt a racist, he obviously just hates everyone.

 

[profitinyourpoetry]

Re: urrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh

I don't understand why, if he were racist, he would release a song called National Front Disco then spend a heck of a lot of money to dispute claims of racism.

I imagine he just overestimated the public/media's ability to understand anythingthat isn't simplified to the highest degree. Or, as some may say, he was just being controvertial for the sake of it.

He plainly isnt a racist, he obviously just hates everyone.

the fact is, no one can make commentds calling the Chinese a sub species and not expect to be called a racist

 

[Oh my god. it's Robby!]

Re: urrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh

aww, I enjoyed that 2007 thread, thanks
as for this one, come on man, nobody really knows what goes on inside of another person, end of story

 

[cornelius blaze]

Re: urrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh

as for this one, come on man, nobody really knows what goes on inside of another person, end of story

 

[smiler]

"You can't help but feel..." is pretty much the same or worse as saying "I feel...". Just come out and say it, "I feel the Chinese are a subspecies", don't use language to deflect what you think onto others. The suggestion that it's very different and your characterization of past threads as 'full of the "he's a racist" lies' I think shows you are in denial.



As you may recall, even the "Love Music, Hate Racism" movement you referenced thought it was a racist statement and dropped their support (link):



As for my opinion, I think it's a complex issue and is there is no simple answer. Maybe it is calculated that he makes statements he knows will be controversial so they get press and therefore more attention to what he most strongly believes in, animal rights. I don't feel it is 'libelous' by the NME, Guardian, or anyone else to call him out on the statements. At the same time, Morrissey has had friends that are of a racial minority and many of his fans are of a racial minority, not exactly traits of someone that could be characterized as 'racist'.

I disagee that the 2 statements are the same "You can't help but feel..." suggest an emotional response, whereas "he called...." (as was the original misquote in the comment and not "i feel" - somehow you managed to misquote the misquote?!) seems more like a cold declaration of opinion. Anyway the quote is ugly and difficult to defend fully as i have already said. The point is why not just use the full and proper quote in context if we are reviewing the evidence?

You give the game away when you say "Just come out and say it" like you think you can climb into Morrissey head and tell us what he really thinks or what he really wanted to say- lol

As for Love Music Hate Racism I think the intergity of that organisation is seriously undermined when they publically "distance themselves" from a patron without returning his money

Am not sure i understand what you mean by in denial? - in denial from what? why don't you just come out and say it?

The NME did more than "call him out" in my opinion but that is for the courts to decide - we'll see and when we do you can admit you got it wrong.

 

[Anaesthesine]

Does this mean that clever people are given certain concessions?

Certainly not; but misanthropy and racism are two very different things. Misanthropy has nothing to do with simple notions of superiority and nationalism, and everything to do with disappointment, alienation, thwarted ideals and a general sense of philosophical curmudgeonliness. Clever people are much more discerning in their choice of misery.

 

[platypus]

Morrissey is an unapologetic, classically trained misanthrope. That is the beginning, middle and end of it. Misanthropy is not racism, and Morrissey is not a racist. Cowards, morons, ignoramuses and people who lack empathy are racists. Some of the cleverest, most insightful writers/philosophers of all time were misanthropes.

This!

 

[smiler]

Morrissey is an unapologetic, classically trained misanthrope. That is the beginning, middle and end of it. Misanthropy is not racism, and Morrissey is not a racist. Cowards, morons, ignoramuses and people who lack empathy are racists. Some of the cleverest, most insightful writers/philosophers of all time were misanthropes.

Morrissey is a highly-functioning misanthrope in an age when it is unfashionable to be so. I agree, some of his statements are terribly misguided, thoughtless, hurtful and counterproductive, but he does not discriminate on the basis of race, he discriminates on the basis of walking upright, using tools, factory farming and the wearing of hats.

This is a silly conversation.

Quite right.

 

[Happy Maudlin]

Every now and then, Ghandi needs a machine gun.

And therein lies the hypocrisy. Ghandi was a pacifist and to some extent so is Morrissey, despite his well-noted attraction to the exact opposite of his convictions. When the sane, accepting Morrissey starts using "hateful" language to incite rage over his issue of choice (animal rights), things get icky. The contradiction is very deeply rooted, and I recognize that he is a man with flaws, but its borderline hypocritical to allow outrage over one singular issue cloud proper judgment. That is all.

 

[Peterb]

Certainly not; but misanthropy and racism are two very different things. Misanthropy has nothing to do with simple notions of superiority and nationalism, and everything to do with disappointment, alienation, thwarted ideals and a general sense of philosophical curmudgeonliness. Clever people are much more discerning in their choice of misery.

But Anaesthine I think you are straying here, the real issue here is not the racist but those who suffer because of it. If you are a victim of racism what difference does it make if it is misanthropy or racism? Like it or not, dear Moz's comments have contributed to sum total of intolerance.

 

[CrookedLittleVein]

But Anaesthine I think you are straying here, the real issue here is not the racist but those who suffer because of it. If you are a victim of racism what difference does it make if it is misanthropy or racism? Like it or not, dear Moz's comments have contributed to sum total of intolerance.

But the question was: Is Morrissey Racist? It wasn't: Can Morrissey's Remarks be Interpreted as Racist?

 

[Peterb]

But the question was: Is Morrissey Racist? It wasn't: Can Morrissey's Remarks be Interpreted as Racist?

Hey Crookedlittlevein. How you doing?
I see your point. I guess the point I was making to Anaesthine is that if his remarks can be interpreted as racist then maybe that's more of an issue than whether or not he is a racist.
But, you are right, I have strayed off the subject and Anaesthine was correct and on topic.

 

[wythenshawewallflower]

I have trawled through this thread and related ones and wish to note the following publicly;
1. Morrissey has never made a racist statement, by that I mean no direct quote of his has ever suggested such a thing, and those trying to suggest he has do not understand what racism is exactly.
2. To help clear up the r(sic)oyals saluting Cromwell lyric; didn't he create the Civil List which means we have been supporting those Windsor spongers for 350 years or so?
3. Death Disco is obsessed with the size of his penis.

 

[wythenshawewallflower]

I have trawled through this thread and related ones and wish to note the following publicly;
1. Morrissey has never made a racist statement, by that I mean no direct quote of his has ever suggested such a thing, and those trying to suggest he has do not understand what racism is exactly.
2. To help clear up the r(sic)oyals saluting Cromwell lyric; didn't he create the Civil List which means we have been supporting those Windsor spongers for 350 years or so?
3. Death Disco is obsessed with the size of his penis.

And another thing...
4. Some of the spelling on this site is appalling.

 

[Peterb]

I have trawled through this thread and related ones and wish to note the following publicly;
1. Morrissey has never made a racist statement, by that I mean no direct quote of his has ever suggested such a thing, and those trying to suggest he has do not understand what racism is exactly.
2. To help clear up the r(sic)oyals saluting Cromwell lyric; didn't he create the Civil List which means we have been supporting those Windsor spongers for 350 years or so?
3. Death Disco is obsessed with the size of his penis.

Well he did call the chinese a subspecies. Maybe I do not know what racism is but this pretty offensive.
And yes, poor old Deathdisco is obessed with his member. I get the impression that he doesn't have any friends and spends his evenings on line winding up the likes of me.

 

[wythenshawewallflower]

Well he did call the chinese a subspecies. Maybe I do not know what racism is but this pretty offensive.
And yes, poor old Deathdisco is obessed with his member. I get the impression that he doesn't have any friends and spends his evenings on line winding up the likes of me.

I don't think penis obsession is a bad thing, I think we are all a little/big obsessed with our members.
As for Mozzer's racism, and I know this has already been pointed out, he did not call the Chinese a sub species. He said Did you see the thing on the news about their treatment of animals and animal welfare? Absolutely horrific. You can't help but feel that the Chinese are a subspecies." the unsaid bit being "due to their treatment of animals", which he did not need to repeat as it had already been said.
I don't think it is offensive at all, just a way of raising the issue. If he had said the same about my nationality and I came from a nation which visited such cruelty on animals, I would almost certainly think "He has a point".