Morrissey’s view on gender identity

Morrissey literally put a trans woman on the cover of a top 10 single as the Tories prepared their section 28 legislation. The Gen PO obit seemed immensely sympathetic to their desire to remake their body. Claiming Moz for the terfs seems a bit of a stretch - he'll stand up for JKR just like he stood up for Cameron and Charles, he can't resist the flattery of someone saying they're a fan.
 
It's not a debate - it's asserting that he believes things that he's never actually said.

I don't know what you think is 'distorted' you would have to say.

I know of a Muslim women who is in a group of women that feel they can no longer attend a women only swimming session as a (clearly intact) white transwoman insists on swimming in those sessions.

Black women in the USA are seriously disadvantaged through the application of gender ideology especially as sports scholarships are are one of the few ways working class black woman can attend higher education. These female scholarships are now being taken up by men identifying as women.

More information on how gender ideology has a negative impact on black American females:

You are not quite as progressive as you think you are. You say you support minorities but not if they are Muslim women or black women. There is a word for that…
 
I know of a Muslim women who is in a group of women that feel they can no longer attend a women only swimming session as a (clearly intact) white transwoman insists on swimming in those sessions.

Black women in the USA are seriously disadvantaged through the application of gender ideology especially as sports scholarships are are one of the few ways working class black woman can attend higher education. These female scholarships are now being taken up by men identifying as women.

More information on how gender ideology has a negative impact on black American females:

You are not quite as progressive as you think you are. You say you support minorities but not if they are Muslim women or black women. There is a word for that…

Of course health bodies wanting to be ‘inclusive’ are happy to change the wording from ‘all women’ to ‘people with cervixes’ in the U.K.

Who will this impact? Mainly non-white women that do not have a good grasp of English.

Always women of colour that appear to suffer. Funny that?
 
I know of a Muslim women who is in a group of women that feel they can no longer attend a women only swimming session as a (clearly intact) white transwoman insists on swimming in those sessions.

Black women in the USA are seriously disadvantaged through the application of gender ideology especially as sports scholarships are are one of the few ways working class black woman can attend higher education. These female scholarships are now being taken up by men identifying as women.

More information on how gender ideology has a negative impact on black American females:

You are not quite as progressive as you think you are. You say you support minorities but not if they are Muslim women or black women. There is a word for that…

Well - there you go - making it absolutely clear that this thread is actually about your strong opinions about gender & not some "debate" about Morrissey at all.
 
Well - there you go - making it absolutely clear that this thread is actually about your strong opinions about gender & not some "debate" about Morrissey at all.

Happy for it to be about Morrissey’s views and the broader debate (it would odd if that was not the case!).

I notice you did not address any of the issues I raised though?
 
I think he's into a gender movement that seems to have sadly fallen by the wayside in the modern debate, a movement which was about breaking down rigid stereotypes, categories and norms about what men and women should be. Rather than reinforcing stereotypes and creating a new set of boxes to shove people in, which seems to be the "modern" movement.
 
Morrissey literally put a trans woman on the cover of a top 10 single as the Tories prepared their section 28 legislation. The Gen PO obit seemed immensely sympathetic to their desire to remake their body. Claiming Moz for the terfs seems a bit of a stretch - he'll stand up for JKR just like he stood up for Cameron and Charles, he can't resist the flattery of someone saying they're a fan.
JKR's support of Morrissey pre dates her current position on the trans debate by many many years - she's in Introducing Morrissey (2002), so it's possible that whatever friendship/loyalty they have was formed before all this all blew up and he's not about to throw her under the bus due to her current position. It's also quite possible that his primary concern is people being cancelled, rather than aligning himself with their views. It's quite possible that he doesn't agree with her stance and yet is prepared to cut her some slack and oppose her cancellation - as many do with him - and to recognise that this is one aspect of a person, not her whole being. Not saying any of this is the case, just that I don't think we can't rule it out.
 
JKR's support of Morrissey pre dates her current position on the trans debate by many many years - she's in Introducing Morrissey (2002), so it's possible that whatever friendship/loyalty they have was formed before all this all blew up and he's not about to throw her under the bus due to her current position. It's also quite possible that his primary concern is people being cancelled, rather than aligning himself with their views. It's quite possible that he doesn't agree with her stance and yet is prepared to cut her some slack and oppose her cancellation - as many do with him - and to recognise that this is one aspect of a person, not her whole being. Not saying any of this is the case, just that I don't think we can't rule it out.

This does not explain his continued support of Germaine Greer though?

I had forgotten about Candy Darling, but then I suppose his position may have not changed. While he might support Candy, he perhaps never thought of Candy as female (spoiler: he wasn’t).
 
This does not explain his continued support of Germaine Greer though?

I had forgotten about Candy Darling, but then I suppose his position may have not changed. While he might support Candy, he perhaps never thought of Candy as female (spoiler: he wasn’t).
Sorry, I'm not sure I know enough about his encounters with Greer, but my understanding is he was a great admirer of feminist writers of the 70s/80s, so isn't it possible that his admiration of Greer stems from that time and refers to her influential feminist writings then, rather than comments she's made lately? I suppose what I mean is that we can't assume that M's defence of these people relates to relatively recent pronouncements on one particular issue and that he agrees with them on that. These are people - like him - with a lifetimes's body of work behind them. It's possible that he disagrees with them on this issue, but finds other aspects he strongly agrees with and also fiercely opposes their cancellation and the erasure of their work. So, in a sense, the same issue.
 
Sorry, I'm not sure I know enough about his encounters with Greer, but my understanding is he was a great admirer of feminist writers of the 70s/80s, so isn't it possible that his admiration of Greer stems from that time and refers to her influential feminist writings then, rather than comments she's made lately? I suppose what I mean is that we can't assume that M's defence of these people relates to relatively recent pronouncements on one particular issue and that he agrees with them on that. These are people - like him - with a lifetimes's body of work behind them. It's possible that he disagrees with them on this issue, but finds other aspects he strongly agrees with and also fiercely opposes their cancellation and the erasure of their work. So, in a sense, the same issue.

On reflection I am not sure I am entirely convinced by this or what you said about JK Rowling.

Everybody says they support freedom of speech but 99% of times are only concerned about it if the person they agree with are being silenced. That applies I think to the left, the right and anyone that has strong views on anything!

JK Rowling’s views on women and gender identity are what anyone thinks about her politically (outside of Scotland that is). Hard to provide support if you disagree with her on this, even if you hate any kind of cancel culture.

Just my view - neither of us know for certain of course 🙂
 
On reflection I am not sure I am entirely convinced by this or what you said about JK Rowling.

Everybody says they support freedom of speech but 99% of times are only concerned about it if the person they agree with are being silenced. That applies I think to the left, the right and anyone that has strong views on anything!

JK Rowling’s views on women and gender identity are what anyone thinks about her politically (outside of Scotland that is). Hard to provide support if you disagree with her on this, even if you hate any kind of cancel culture.

Just my view - neither of us know for certain of course 🙂

We know he disagrees with her on Scotland.
 
It's absolutely absurd that in 2023 we are actually discussing if men are women or not, and being punished for saying they are not.
 
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