Morrisseys Irish roots

[cossy]

Hope everyone secured their tickets for the upcoming shows this morning.
This article has just been published in one of Irelands oldest publications and given that Moz is coming back to town I decided it’s appropriate to share

 

[jmb066]

Very nice, Ireland is in his blood you know.

 

[j*e*t]

I suppose many of these details come from Morrissey's Autobiography, but I have researched his family tree myself and found quite a few anomalies (possibly intentional ones). An example is the Brisk family, mentioned in this article, which is a mis-reading of the name Brooks according to expert transcribers on genealogy websites. Old-fashioned handwriting on official certificates can be difficult to read.

 

[Famous when dead]

I shared this in the downloads section a few years back.
Appears relevant.
If I remember, will repost a live download.

Abú Media/TG4 - 'Guth' (The Smiths - how their ancestry influenced their creativity) MPG

40 minutes - MPG format - 1.3 gig ‘Guth’, a new six-part series examining the impact of the Irish diaspora on popular music in the US and UK. "Investigating what life was like in Manchester for members of rock band the Smiths, who are descended from Irish immigrants, and how their ancestry...

www.morrissey-solo.com

Originally aired around 2013.

Irish language TV channel TG4 series "Guth" features Morrissey and Marr (Oct. 17, 2013)

UPDATE Oct. 13: The Morrissey / Marr show airs Oct. 17. Link from Roberto F: TG4 TV listings - Oct. 17, 2013 Guth - 21:30 Investigating what life was like in Manchester for members of rock band the Smiths, who are descended from Irish immigrants, and how their ancestry influenced their...

www.morrissey-solo.com

Regards,
FWD.


(Guth = Voice).

 

[Malarkey]

You're cherry-picking here. You bizarrely called the Smiths "an Irish Catholic band" when virtually everyone who isn't you would surely scratch their head at that one. The Smiths were a British band. You can make your esoteric connections all you want. Morrissey is by his own admission "Irish blood, English heart," so we know where his heart is.

Of course his preoccupations were varied, and the Americana and gay culture are there for sure, but a lot of the references are distinctly English. A Taste of Honey, The Collector, Albert Finney, Tom Courtenay, &c. Viv Nicholson was a cover star unknown to most Americans, I'm sure. As has already pointed out above, Morrissey was a Briton of Irish extraction frequently commenting on Britain, like Shelagh Delaney, and the interloper Oscar Wilde. Anglophiles like me love the Smiths in part because they were so very and uniquely British. They'd be lesser if they were anything else.

Morrissey describes himself as an Irish Catholic & his love of social realism is rooted in his working-class socialism.

 

[Lucifer Sam]

Morrissey describes himself as an Irish Catholic & his love of social realism is rooted in his working-class socialism.

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Okay, I'll correct myself: it's everyone but you and some Irish-centric loonies on Twitter.

 

[Malarkey]

Okay, I'll correct myself: it's everyone but you and some Irish-centric loonies on Twitter.

Danny Kelly was the outgoing editor of the NME when they wrote their pish story about "how English" Morrissey is - that attracted some saddo American anglophile "race realists".

 

[Vesper Nocturne]

Irish Catholic band was pretty funny though. Makes them sound like they were looking for gigs where they could do jigs at weddings

 

[Lucifer Sam]

Danny Kelly was the outgoing editor of the NME when they wrote their pish story about "how English" Morrissey is - that has attracted some saddo American anglophile "race realists".

I'm not concerned with that. I'll assume you're trying to lump me in with "saddo American anglophile 'race realists,'" but I'm past caring. I'm just saying it's odd to call a band formed in England by people born in England an Irish band. I realize they're all of Irish descent. It's cute; I get it. I can even hear the influence of Irish folk music in Johnny Marr's melancholy playing and Morrissey's "la-da-day" singing. It's still a bizarre misnomer. The Smiths were a British band. I don't want to go for a dozen pages on this.

 

[Malarkey]

Irish Catholic band was pretty funny though. Makes them sound like they were looking for gigs where they could do jigs at weddings

Irish Catholic is a separate identity to Irish Protestants who tend to call themselves Anglo-Irish or Scots Irish or British for historical reasons.

 

[Malarkey]

I'm not concerned with that. I'll assume you're trying to lump me in with "saddo American anglophile 'race realists,'" but I'm past caring. I'm just saying it's odd to call a band formed in England by people born in England an Irish band. I realize they're all of Irish descent. It's cute; I get it. I can even hear the influence of Irish folk music in Johnny Marr's melancholy playing and Morrissey's "la-da-day" singing. It's still a bizarre misnomer. The Smiths were a British band. I don't want to go for a dozen pages on this.

It's not at all odd when they grew up in the Irish Catholic diaspora.

 

[gashonthenail]

Irish Catholic is a separate identity to Irish Protestants who tend to call themselves Anglo-Irish or Scots Irish or British for historical reasons.

Why are you so keen to make a distinction between Irish Protestant and Irish Catholic? Some Protestants in the North wouldn't call themselves Irish, I agree, but many would. There is also a sizeable Protestant minority in the South that would call themselves Irish and wouldn't call themselves any of your suggestions above. Many Irish people these days wouldn't describe themselves as Catholic or Protestant. Your wish to label people according to their religion or the religion of their parents is odd. Ultimately everyone living in the island of Ireland is Irish. The Irish diaspora is made up of Catholics and Protestants and people of no faith or religion.

 

[Malarkey]

Why are you so keen to make a distinction between Irish Protestant and Irish Catholic? Some Protestants in the North wouldn't call themselves Irish, I agree, but many would. There is also a sizeable Protestant minority in the South that would call themselves Irish and wouldn't call themselves any of your suggestions above. Many Irish people these days wouldn't describe themselves as Catholic or Protestant. Your wish to label people according to their religion or the religion of their parents is odd. Ultimately everyone living in the island of Ireland is Irish. The Irish diaspora is made up of Catholics and Protestants and people of no faith or religion.

It's a fact that there is an Irish Catholic diaspora that is distinct from the Irish Protestant diaspora. Orange Walks - for instance - are not a Catholic thing.

Identities change - but Morrissey was born in the 50s - so it's relevant to his background.

 

[gashonthenail]

It's a fact that there is an Irish Catholic diaspora that is distinct from the Irish Protestant diaspora. Orange Walks - for instance - are not a Catholic thing.

Identities change - but Morrissey was born in the 50s - so it's relevant to his background.

Is it a fact? At least 17 US presidents are of Ulster Irish descent, out of 23 in total of all-Irish descent. But in common parlance hardly anyone would make that distinction. They would just talk about 23 US presidents having Irish descent.
And I don't think this distinction of yours is something that Moz would share. His main hero in life, Oscar Wilde, was of Anglo-Irish descent and educated at a Protestant boys' school in County Fermanagh in Ulster. And yet Moz clearly sees something in Oscar's life and outlook that he shares.

 

[Malarkey]

Is it a fact? At least 17 US presidents are of Ulster Irish descent, out of 23 in total of all-Irish descent. But in common parlance hardly anyone would make that distinction. They would just talk about 23 US presidents having Irish descent.
And I don't think this distinction of yours is something that Moz would share. His main hero in life, Oscar Wilde, was of Anglo-Irish descent and educated at a Protestant boys' school in County Fermanagh in Ulster. And yet Moz clearly sees something in Oscar's life and outlook that he shares.

"we Irish Catholics"

From Morrissey's autobiography in 2013:

It doesn't mean you have nothing in common or are doomed to hate each other. There are just some differences that have mattered enough over the years to be notable.