Scott Rodger (Maverick) leaks Morrissey information and email re: Bonfire / Miley via X (October 17, 2023)

There's been drama!

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Related item:

• Scott Rodger (Maverick/Quest): Bonfire of Teenagers scheduled for Feb. 23, delayed by featured artist - Dec 24, 2022

 

[DaveJCarr]

It's not clear at all that Morrissey knew this. At least not at the point when he commented on Miley's participation.
The email only shows he knows her manager has said she isn't to be credited.
And, iirc, the Columbia executive email is from after Morrissey mentioned her involvement.

I'm going by Scott's original tweet: To Morissey: "you went ahead and did what you are asked not to do" That seems pretty clear to me. Even if it was just from the management, that is still s denial through official channels. Artists are paired with managers in order to communicate their wishes and to facilitate harmony between the artist and the labels. Sometimes it doesn't work out, but clearly, even Scott Roger was engaged in attempts to facilitate some kind of acceptable resolution – I find it very easy to believe that he himself may have communicated "hey – management/capitol said no to Morrissey directly. Shouldn't either of those things be sufficient to an artist who is been around longer than I've been alive?

Further, the idea that "if Miley herself says it's okay to be on the sleeve and it is the word of She Who Must Be Obeyed.." Is not at all how the record industry works, not how exclusive contracts work, and Morrissey knows this. But, the management and label positions do not matter to him. He i has this idea of Miley's artistic investment in an the project – and her commercial boon, – which should be respected at all costs.

And yet, somebody with Morrissey's experience might also have known that the omission of a response from Miley herself could very well be of response in and of itself. How many times has he ghosted people throughout his career to avoid conflict, or to simply remove himself from the situation? How many times has he used managers to communicate with potential and soon-to-be former bandmates? Lots

Silence can be no. If she really wanted to appear accredited or uncredited, she'd have said so. I don't really see the need to bend over backwards to give them every benefit of the doubt when there were plenty of indications that there was no coming from somewhere, from official channels that you have meant something regardless of his own personal feelings about the efficacy of managers in general

And at least, now finally, thanks to the Fox interview he seems resigned to acceptance on that score.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

What a jerk. Morrissey really ruined Columbia’s campaign. It was extremely difficult to sell those Miley Cyrus records ever since Morrissey opened up his mouth. Talk about ‘Bigmouth strikes Again’ ! Am I Right?

 

[DaveJCarr]

If I pay somebody handsomely for the exclusive rights to publish and distribute their creative work, I also have veto power over which other publishers can have access to their works and officially collaborate with them, how, when, and if those collaborations get published. The reason I choose to decline certain collaborations and publicities is immaterial. It is still a right I have. No one seems to dispute that.

People are also free to believe that those corporate decisions are mindless, stifling, and banal too

Miley and Moz seem to share a genuine kinship in a lot of ways. One of them is choosing/wanting to continue to exist ss talent paid talent on label rosters, despite both having the cache for independent self-distribution. That comes with a loss of power and autonomy. But it's a choice they are both freely making

 

[Ryan]

Eventual single cover once everyone makes up?

 

[DaveJCarr]

Eventual single cover once everyone makes up?

I'd enjoy that immensely. I'd also like for Without Music The World Dies to be released and World Peace Is None of Your Business to get re-released have more than a 3-week and shelf life All of those things seem equally unlikely in the near term

 

[Vesper Nocturne]

No one is gonna make up!

Capitol is gonna release it, because Michelle Jubelirer will be redoing the backing vocals!

Booyah!

I’m crying!!

 

[Simple]

What a jerk. Morrissey really ruined Columbia’s campaign. It was extremely difficult to sell those Miley Cyrus records ever since Morrissey opened up his mouth. Talk about ‘Bigmouth strikes Again’ ! Am I Right?

Strange person, your pedantic sarcasm really betrays how little you still understand the issue and how little you have to contribute to this conversation. It's okay to admit that you're out of your depth. @DaveJCarr is correct on all counts. The perceived banality of these corporate decisions doesn't negate the contractual specifics -- this is business as usual for the record industry and Morrissey brought this particular dilemma onto himself.

 

[Crisstti]

I'm going by Scott's original tweet: To Morissey: "you went ahead and did what you are asked not to do" That seems pretty clear to me. Even if it was just from the management, that is still s denial through official channels. Artists are paired with managers in order to communicate their wishes and to facilitate harmony between the artist and the labels. Sometimes it doesn't work out, but clearly, even Scott Roger was engaged in attempts to facilitate some kind of acceptable resolution – I find it very easy to believe that he himself may have communicated "hey – management/capitol said no to Morrissey directly. Shouldn't either of those things be sufficient to an artist who is been around longer than I've been alive?

It's still not clear that when Moz mentioned Miley's involvement in public, he knew her label had said "no". Scott says that, but he presents no evidence of it (it could well exist, but he doesn't show it). The email from Morrissey he reproduces seems to indicate, in fact, that at that point he was not aware of Columbia saying no to Miley's participation, since he only talks about her management and wants to know Miley's opinion. We don't know what answer Morrissey got to this.

Further, the idea that "if Miley herself says it's okay to be on the sleeve and it is the word of She Who Must Be Obeyed.." Is not at all how the record industry works, not how exclusive contracts work, and Morrissey knows this. But, the management and label positions do not matter to him. He i has this idea of Miley's artistic investment in an the project – and her commercial boon, – which should be respected at all costs.

We don't know that the label's position doesn't matter to him, cause we don't know at what point he's made aware that Columbia has said no. In fact, Scott Rodger himself only really knows this for sure in November 2022, months after Moz mentioned in public that she was involved.

And yet, somebody with Morrissey's experience might also have known that the omission of a response from Miley herself could very well be of response in and of itself. How many times has he ghosted people throughout his career to avoid conflict, or to simply remove himself from the situation? How many times has he used managers to communicate with potential and soon-to-be former bandmates? Lots

Silence can be no. If she really wanted to appear accredited or uncredited, she'd have said so. I don't really see the need to bend over backwards to give them every benefit of the doubt when there were plenty of indications that there was no coming from somewhere, from official channels that you have meant something regardless of his own personal feelings about the efficacy of managers in general

This is a fair point.
Of course at some point she must have clearly communicated to him that she didn't want to appear on the record (we'd have to assume shortly before Central's "Miley is a punk rocker" post (December 2022, also after Columbia executive's email)
It was also over 5 months since Moz's email to Scott and his announcement of Miley's involvement. We don't know what transpired in the meantime.

And at least, now finally, thanks to the Fox interview he seems resigned to acceptance on that score.

Yes, that great. It was never worth it to begin with, but well.

 

[Simple]

It's still not clear that when Moz mentioned Miley's involvement in public, he knew her label had said "no". Scott says that, but he presents no evidence of it (it could well exist, but he doesn't show it). The email from Morrissey he reproduces seems to indicate, in fact, that at that point he was not aware of Columbia saying no to Miley's participation, since he only talks about her management and wants to know Miley's opinion. We don't know what answer Morrissey got to this.

Liberate yourself from the compulsion to defend Morrissey in every single move he makes. He's not infallible and moreso, he's not stupid. His email requesting Miley's opinion on the matter was disingenuous and irrelevant -- he knows that her perspective can't alter the legal particularities of the situation, he only wants to protest.

 

[Crisstti]

Liberate yourself from the compulsion to defend Morrissey in every single move he makes. He's not infallible and moreso, he's not stupid. His email requesting Miley's opinion on the matter was disingenuous and irrelevant -- he knows that her perspective can't alter the legal particularities of the situation, he only wants to protest.

Uhm, nothing shows he was aware of these "legal particularities" at that point. Again, Columbia's leaked email is from 9 months after Moz's email, and months also after he mentioned Miley's participation.

 

[slick]

this topic is being stretched thin

 

[SuedeMoz]

Uhm, nothing shows he was aware of these "legal particularities" at that point. Again, Columbia's leaked email is from 9 months after Moz's email, and months also after he mentioned Miley's participation.

So your contention is what? Morrissey didn't know that Miley was supposed to appear uncredited? Even if that is somehow true... what about all the lies he told about why BOT was not being released? Censorship... Capitol bought it just to silence him. Is there an excuse for that... that doesn't make him a liar?

 

[Redacted]

The way some people have been going on about this is fecking retarded.
Who cares
I agree, it doesn't make M look great. He seems very needy and desperate but most of us
guessed he only wanted MC to shift units. Same with the people on California Son
He used to be more about art , than he is these days and he would have ran a mile from the likes
of Greenday members and MC. its a shame he has gone down that road
The trouble with M is, he wants to prove a point the whole time, he is so keen to show people in the UK , that he is better than them and has American fame (which in his mind, is true stardom ) that he ends up making some bad moves but what the feckever.

I am so disappointed you didn't tell us that you were in that email loop

 

[Malarkey]

Are you not doing some too?

Central's different now, changed to what you were looking for, having largely ditched 'hot button' references. You were instrumental in pointing out how the old approach could be problematic, and presumably leading to a rethink and more on- key messages. So well done you!

Now please sit back and enjoy the shows!

I take it you have some kind of association with Donnie Knutson?

There are things he could have prevented or mitigated & he didn't.

Central posted innocuous things for months - then posted damaging things when he was releasing new music.

It's happened for every album since Donnie started working for Morrissey & there's no reason to think that won't continue.

Anyone can make errors of judgement - but he can see the damage being done to Morrissey's reputation & he doesn't get the posts deleted & he doesn't stop similar things being posted.

 

[Anonymous]

I take it you have some kind of association with Donnie Knutson?

There are things he could have prevented or mitigated & he didn't.

Central posted innocuous things for months - then posted damaging things when he was releasing new music.

It's happened for every album since Donnie started working for Morrissey & there's no reason to think that won't continue.

Anyone can make errors of judgement - but he can see the damage being done to Morrissey's reputation & he doesn't get the posts deleted & he doesn't stop similar things being posted.

Morrissey’s whole career and stock has plummeted since Knutson’s tenure commenced. And it shows no sign of rising whilst he’s still there.
As badly advised as morrissey is, he has a mind of his own but clearly he’s singing from the same hymn sheet as Knutson.
Morrissey reminds me of an uncle, and not a good one. Kill Uncle? No, he’s done that himself.

 

[Malarkey]

Morrissey’s whole career and stock has plummeted since Knutson’s tenure commenced. And it shows no sign of rising whilst he’s still there.
As badly advised as morrissey is, he has a mind of his own but clearly he’s singing from the same hymn sheet as Knutson.
Morrissey reminds me of an uncle, and not a good one. Kill Uncle? No, he’s done that himself.

He isn't singing from the same hymn sheet as Knutson - his statements & emails don't align with Central's posts.

The "own mind" stuff doesn't carry much weight when his mental & physical health problems have been so visible.

 

[Anonymous]

I take it you have some kind of association with Donnie Knutson?

There are things he could have prevented or mitigated & he didn't.

Central posted innocuous things for months - then posted damaging things when he was releasing new music.

It's happened for every album since Donnie started working for Morrissey & there's no reason to think that won't continue.

Anyone can make errors of judgement - but he can see the damage being done to Morrissey's reputation & he doesn't get the posts deleted & he doesn't stop similar things being posted.

I am afraid this is the conspiratorial logic at work.

Question your doomy analysis…and you must be an associate of Donny?

Is this a place to openly debate and discuss an artist’s career or a trap to separate and shame those who wish Morrissey well and those who undermine him?

 

[Malarkey]

I am afraid this is the conspiratorial logic at work.

Question your doomy analysis…and you must be an associate of Donny?

Is this a place to openly debate and discuss an artist’s career or a trap to separate and shame those who wish Morrissey well and those who undermine him?

In a previous post he seemed to know why & for how long Donnie had taken on management responsibilities - which isn't something I've seen discussed in public.

 

[Private Widdle]

this topic is being stretched thin

Turn down the telly - you might hear it snap.

 

[T. H. Auden]

That this guy leaked private emails isn't Morrissey's fault. The record companies should refuse to work with Scott Rodger (not Morrissey), as Rodger is the one who f*cked up. It's not fair to blame the artist for the manager's behavior. It's not like Colombia would lose money to have Miley Cyrus on BoT. It would probably just give her more attention and thus increase her value as an artist for them (=they would make more money). So this is just the familiar vanity from the bogus music moguls again.