Southpaw Grammar
- Thread starter throwdini
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mspendl828
Banned
Is your username a reference to Newsradio?
No idea what you disliked about it?
How about the weak, forgettable melodies, the lazy, third-rate lyrics, the drum solos, the artwork, the tedious, pseudo-grunge arrangements. Hope that's triggered your memory!
Actually, Reader Meet Author is a good piece of music with a nice string arrangement, Boy Racer was a decent single (if you remove the last 45 seconds) and Southpaw was alright but the rest was, frankly, pants!
sonandheir
Member
Easily the most underrated Morrissey album. For those who haven't listened to it, I urge you to do so now! Both the vocals and the riffs are brilliant. Far too much flak has been thrown around due to a mere lengthy drum solo (which I like anyway ). It's also great to hear Moz experimenting with different sounds rather than simply release similar sounding material to appease certain fans.
Granted, the lyrics are not one of his most poetic offerings, however they have a certain rawness which complements the music. I found this from LASID rather interesting:
). It's also great to hear Moz experimenting with different sounds rather than simply release similar sounding material to appease certain fans.Granted, the lyrics are not one of his most poetic offerings, however they have a certain rawness which complements the music. I found this from LASID rather interesting:
I don't think that it's lyrically disappointing at all. The problem with SG is that most people don't have a clue what Morrissey is singing about.
SG is very English.. The "I love Sharon on the windowscreen" for instance is often dismissed as silly lyrics, but when one knows what this line is actually about, it makes sense! The whole reason behind "Nobody Loves Us" being a b-side for "Dagenham Dave" speaks so much as well, IF you knew what he was talking about...
Also, people who critiscize SG's lyrics are generally American. No offence here, but I believe that English people (and us colonialists) actually understand what this album is about. I speak generally of course... I'm sure that there are Americans who do undertsand it, and English people who don't
Morrissey is very English, and he always has been.. from singing about the Moors murders, and the Thatcher woman to everything he sings about on SG. Southpaw Grammar to me is Morrissey singing about something he *wanted* to song about, something which obviously means something to him...
I don't expect Amerinans to understand it, just as I don't understand some things Americans sing about sometimes.. But does that make it a bad album? Because we don't undertsand it, are we entitled to call it rubbish?
I think that Morrissey himself, by including so many SG songs on his various tours thereafter, is telling us that this album means something to him. Morrissey *wants* us to understand it, and what it means to him, but we're failing him. Well some of us are anyway.. We demand what *we* want to hear, which I believe is wrong. Morrissey is an artist, and sometimes artists want to paint a picture for themselves.. Sometime artists paint something which they know will not be what their fans are expecting, but they need to paint it anyway... Fans dont' have to like things like this, but there's no need to rubbish it either
As a Morrissey fan, I listen to what he creates and I try to understand why he's done that. I don't always agree with or like what he does (eg. that Lawyer/Liar song) but I at least realise why he did it.
Southpaw Grammar is Morrissey's story of working class England. It's where he came from, and he obviously felt some need to sing about it. I'm sorry that so many people can't understand what he's singing about, but just maybe we should open our ears a bit and try to think, instead of just demanding what *we* want to hear about...
Roma De Moz
Fat Children Took My Life
People who say this make no sense.
If an artist other than Moz branched out in a different musical direction to the same lukewarm reception that "Southpaw Grammar" received, we would be pillorying it as a failed attempt at experimentation (which for the most part, that record was). But of course, when it's an artist we all love and admire, it's suddenly different, and any change is automatically perceived a noble one. If Morrissey went "rave" tomorrow, I wouldn't be surprised if some of you praised it for a shift in direction.
I'm not denying your right to enjoy the record of course, but experimentation doesn't automatically become good because it is simply different. When did we start hating the old formula enough to arrive at such base conclusions? The same can be said for "Sweetie Pie", which I actually quite like: people were let down by "Ringleader..." to such an extent, that "Sweetie Pie" was branded as a masterpiece for it's shift in style, regardless of the fact that taken alone, it's hardly the successful deviation in genre it's thought to be.
sonandheir
Member
I see your point - I don't applaud Morrissey for the sole fact that he changed musical direction. The act can only be applauded if the change is executed well. Commercially, Southpaw may be considered a failure due to the "lukewarm reception", but I and many others like the Southpaw sound. However I don't think you can equate the change in style that Moz undertook with Southpaw, with such a drastic change as turning "rave".
As you know, popularity is no indication of musical achievement. Think McFly.
As you know, popularity is no indication of musical achievement. Think McFly.
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Slightly_Afraid
Superhero In Training
I dunno why I love it so much, but for me Southpaw is second in Moz's solo canon to Vauxhall. Like I say, I can't really justify it, as "Best Friend On The Payroll" and "Do Your Best and Don't Worry" aren't exactly stunning. But, even just for the song "Southpaw" itself, this album is worth it. That bit at the end where he sings "The girl of your dreams is here all alone" to fade is beautiful.
9 x Fined
nevermind
Geez...Someone wrote, Morrissey is an artist. That is the fact - he is an artist, not a commercial artist you hire to do a paint by numbers for you. If he wants to go in a different direction, power to him. If we do not respond as strongly as to other records, so be it.
It is like ROTT - I really really do not like it. Why? I dunno...my ears simply reject it. Southpaw, on the otherhand, is a gem for me. Why? I guess my ears like it.
So - anyone who says that we are morons for likeing or disliking a change in direction - go listen to you Fray CD or your Goo Goo Dolls. They will deliver reliable crap year after year that you can rely on.
BTW - check out my myspace page...
It is like ROTT - I really really do not like it. Why? I dunno...my ears simply reject it. Southpaw, on the otherhand, is a gem for me. Why? I guess my ears like it.
So - anyone who says that we are morons for likeing or disliking a change in direction - go listen to you Fray CD or your Goo Goo Dolls. They will deliver reliable crap year after year that you can rely on.
BTW - check out my myspace page...
Roma De Moz
Fat Children Took My Life
Who's saying your a moron for liking it? Certainly not me, but what I said still stands. My point was that experimentation alone isn't enough, it has to be a deviation of some artistic achievement, rather than simply a questionable shift in gear. Those who shout Southpaw's praises usually do so with something like, "it's different, therefore it's good", which is a cop out. Their simply taking it's weakness and touting it as a strength in an attempt to explain away what they cannot understand; that Morrissey tried a different sound, to little avail.
If you like Southpaw Grammar, than good for you. Seriously, that's great. I myself find some parts of the record perfectly enjoyable, but as a whole it doesn't do it for me. My criticisms aren't aimed solely at "SG" though, or it's fans for liking it, simply the crowd that gather about any experimental record and seek to explain away it's faults as strengths.
Danny
Senior Member
Maybe to them what you consider faults are it's strengths. That's the whole basis of disagreement about art.
As a follow-up to Vauxhull I was disappointed then-and nothing has really changed. The Operation, Boy Racer, Southpaw, and to a lesser extent Reader Meet Author are the only songs that really measure up to me. And all of those are flawed in their own ways. And the lyrics throughout the album aren't very inspired.
mike joyce
Junior Member
No idea what you disliked about it?
How about the weak, forgettable melodies, the lazy, third-rate lyrics, the drum solos, the artwork, the tedious, pseudo-grunge arrangements. Hope that's triggered your memory!
Actually, Reader Meet Author is a good piece of music with a nice string arrangement, Boy Racer was a decent single (if you remove the last 45 seconds) and Southpaw was alright but the rest was, frankly, pants!
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