"Why it's great the Smiths broke up" by Mark Simpson - Rolling Stone

Why It's Great the Smiths Broke Up - Rolling Stone
Celebrating the breakup of the Manchester foursome – Morrissey, Johnny Marr, Andy Rourke and Mike Joyce – 30 years later
By Mark Simpson

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Are you completely forgetting Johnny's success with Electronic? Songs at #12, #8 & #6 in the UK singles chart, with the debut album getting to #2 in the album chart and selling over a million copies worldwide. I think Johnny got pretty far with his 'different direction'. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it wasn't a huge deal at the time, and there is no way Moz would have given Johnny the space to do anything like this in the Smiths.

I'm not talking about that kind of 'success'. I'm talking about continuing where the Smiths left off and writing songs that really matter to people. So in my opinion.. not very far at all.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

What I really wish is that Marr got the time off that he needed from The Smiths' hectic schedule of recording and touring - plus his additional tasks of managing the band. Maybe after 6-12 months away, he would have been ready to continue with a ton of new material. Maybe with proper rest and management, we'd have another 2-3 albums? Who knows, but they certainly didn't exhaust their creative well.

yes, he needed a rest, and who knows what could have happened with proper management. Yes 2-3 albums, maybe. But I really don't think M would want to go in the direction that Marr went with electronic based music, even Bernard wanted Johnny to play guitar on the Electronic stuff, it was his playing that people wanted from him when they worked with him/hired him. Though, I think it's great and healthy that Marr did what he did and is doing what it seems he wants to do.

 

[Johnny Barleycorn]

I have some sympathy with the article. They were perfect, they were resolutely of that time, and continuation could only have led to disappointment.

That said, I would have loved to have heard the lyrics that ended up on Viva Hate married up to Marr compositions and driven by Rourke and Joyce. Almost as much as I would have hated the lyrics that ended up on Kill Uncle married up to Marr compositions and driven by Rourke and Joyce.

 

[Johnny Barleycorn]

What I really wish is that Marr got the time off that he needed from The Smiths' hectic schedule of recording and touring - plus his additional tasks of managing the band. Maybe after 6-12 months away, he would have been ready to continue with a ton of new material. Maybe with proper rest and management, we'd have another 2-3 albums? Who knows, but they certainly didn't exhaust their creative well.

As I recall Marr didn't take much of a break after the split. He was doing session work all over the place.

Perhaps the break he needed was from Morrissey.

 

[SuedeMoz]

But I really don't think M would want to go in the direction that Marr went with electronic based music, even Bernard wanted Johnny to play guitar on the Electronic stuff, it was his playing that people wanted from him when they worked with him/hired him. Though, I think it's great and healthy that Marr did what he did and is doing what it seems he wants to do.

Yes, but I don't think Johnny would have presented that same music to Morrissey. Electronic was uniquely borne out of the relationship with Bernard Sumner who of course was very steeped in electronic music. In other words, I don't think Johnny would have tried to turn the Smiths into an electronic club band - it's not who or what they (Morrissey & Marr) were.

 

[SuedeMoz]

As I recall Marr didn't take much of a break after the split. He was doing session work all over the place.

Perhaps the break he needed was from Morrissey.

Well, yes ... he needed a break from The Smiths (and the large role he played - not the least of which being band manager) to regroup and then possibly refocus on them. I think once they split he felt a tremendous weight off his shoulders and was happy to be part of other projects. As I mentioned in another post - if he had the creative freedom to pursue other projects and still do The Smiths - I think he would've stayed longer and we'd have seen a few more albums, IMHO.

 

[Anonymous]

Are you completely forgetting Johnny's success with Electronic? Songs at #12, #8 & #6 in the UK singles chart, with the debut album getting to #2 in the album chart and selling over a million copies worldwide. I think Johnny got pretty far with his 'different direction'. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it wasn't a huge deal at the time, and there is no way Moz would have given Johnny the space to do anything like this in the Smiths.

Whether he had permission I don't know, but he obviously had space to do this first collaboration with Bernard Sumner. The sky never fell in.

 

[SuedeMoz]

Whether he had permission I don't know, but he obviously had space to do this first collaboration with Bernard Sumner. The sky never fell in.

For what it's worth I believe The Severed Alliance mentioned that Morrissey wasn't happy about it. Obviously, we don't know for sure, but maybe Johnny could've creatively stretched his legs more and just didn't do it? Maybe he simply didn't have the time and energy within The Smiths structure? Four albums in five years, numerous singles and a lot of touring sounds like a pretty full plate. They would've had to figure out a different way of working for it to go on ... and yeah, it eventually might've sucked ... but I believe there was more brilliance left in the tank.

 

[Anonymous]

I wonder why marrs drug use doesn't get mentioned as much In relation to the smiths split. No one doubts morrisseys ability to be contrary or difficult at the time but that issue seems underreported when the topic comes up

 

[Lustman]

I prefer 'mind bomb' and 'viva hate' than SHWC

 

[Anonymous]

I wonder why marrs drug use doesn't get mentioned as much In relation to the smiths split. No one doubts morrisseys ability to be contrary or difficult at the time but that issue seems underreported when the topic comes up

Could be just that it's never been mentioned as an issue by anyone. His drinking, maybe, but nothing to do with drugs. I don't think he did much beyond dope while he was in the Smiths.

 

[Anonymous]

Could be just that it's never been mentioned as an issue by anyone. His drinking, maybe, but nothing to do with drugs. I don't think he did much beyond dope while he was in the Smiths.

It's mentioned in this article and I've seen it mentioned before by people not in the band

 

[Calamine Lotion]

Singers always have an advantage because people know their voice and I think more pop fans focus on the lyrics than the music.
Johnny Marr was on some good records after The Smiths but it's hard to know how large a role he played.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Yes, but I don't think Johnny would have presented that same music to Morrissey. Electronic was uniquely borne out of the relationship with Bernard Sumner who of course was very steeped in electronic music. In other words, I don't think Johnny would have tried to turn the Smiths into an electronic club band - it's not who or what they (Morrissey & Marr) were.

yes, but I was replying to your post, where you said that if Marr had time from the Smiths he could then have a healthy sense of balance so he can continue to write 'Smiths' sounding songs while on the side doing other kinds of music. That's what I think you were saying. And I agree.

But, we know and what Marr found out is that this wasn't really possible if M didn't want to share Marr with anyone else. If the Smiths was for M 24/7 then he felt that the Smiths should also be for Marr 24/7, this can be one example into why maybe M didn't want Marr to do things on the side.

 

[Anonymous]

Could be just that it's never been mentioned as an issue by anyone. His drinking, maybe, but nothing to do with drugs. I don't think he did much beyond dope while he was in the Smiths.

It's here in this interview with Johnny and the guardian. By 1986 he says he was using cocaine. It would explain some of the all over the place enthusiasm and maybe also some of the manic defensiveness about the article that sorta spurred the smiths break up. Cocaine can make you really difficult and make it very hard to settle disagreements as it makes you extremely over sensitive and paranoid. Add morrissey to that mix and no offense to either it's hard to imagine they lasted as long as they did. It's not a knock against him, marr, but I think it kinda fills in a piece of the puzzle that was there split and might explain why a person who was complaining of being exhausted by the band continued full pace after its unraveling

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...y-marr-the-smiths-morrissey-simon-hattenstone

 

[Quando quando quando]

Don't know about the booze and drugs.
Could play a part as so many other things.
I believe Johnny Marr was exhausted and felt too much responsibility, stress and tension and had too much on his shoulders.

The Smiths became a burden for him. I don't know enough about him talking about that, if he gave enough signs. Maybe he wanted to stay strong and in a way that could be seen as admirable but he asked too much of himself. He was still very young.

I don't understand why they couldn't have a break for a year or even 6 months. Wouldn't that be a right move?
I mean, I can't think up a reason why Moz would reject that.
I know his distrust of any manager, or financial expert dealing with their business and that part could have been lifted from Marrs shoulders.
I think in hindsight they all have regrets about what happened, but you don't see it when you're in the middle of the tornado?

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

.



yep, it all went downhill after Marr 'cleaned up' his act and started jogging,etc.. I mean yeah, he's healthier,happier... but where are the songs ? A trade off for the worst if you ask me.



.

 

[SuedeMoz]

I guess my final take on it is that The Smiths burned hot, bright and with an intensity that could never last longterm (stating the obvious). What I've also suggested is that if Morrissey & Marr had learned to work differently with each other, the relationship could have lasted longer, given us more tours, albums, etc. And there's really the rub, isn't it? Had they been different people in any way - The Smiths might have just been a footnote in history.

 

[Johnny Barleycorn]

I guess my final take on it is that The Smiths burned hot, bright and with an intensity that could never last longterm (stating the obvious). What I've also suggested is that if Morrissey & Marr had learned to worked differently with each other, the relationship could have lasted longer, given us more tours, albums, etc. And there's really the rub, isn't it? Had they been different people in any way - The Smiths might have just been a footnote in history.

That chap who was around in the very early days of the Smiths seemed to imply the first concept of the band was for a sort of a camp(er) version of JoBoxers.

 

[Surface]

Are you completely forgetting Johnny's success with Electronic? Songs at #12, #8 & #6 in the UK singles chart, with the debut album getting to #2 in the album chart and selling over a million copies worldwide. I think Johnny got pretty far with his 'different direction'. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it wasn't a huge deal at the time, and there is no way Moz would have given Johnny the space to do anything like this in the Smiths.

10.48 for electronic at Cities in the park in 1991, they were f***ing awesome that day and pulled a massive crowd.