Miss California is a stupid f***ing bitch

[Oh my god. it's Robby!]

I see what I'm dealing with now. Robby, you're a classic self-hating Californian.

You can talk about backward and forward all you want, but California is no different than any other state. Some pluses, some minuses. Sometimes the people get it right, sometimes they don't.

What you San Francisco people don't like to admit (now I get to generalize ) is that California is a huge state with many different kinds of people. Many of them are conservative. A shock, I know. Many of them voted for the gay marriage ban because they don't like gay marriage, not because they are "backward" or because they can't read ballots. The majority will come around and gay marriage will be legal in California again. Then what? One line is crossed off a long, detailed, mostly ridiculous list of reasons to hate California which always has and always will be 95% nonsense.

I agree with most of that, but I too see now better what I'm dealing with in you Worm.
You do not think that people being against gay marriage is a certain kind of proof of their stupidity better than any I.Q. test maybe even.
Well, I do.

 

[Cassius]

Well, I do.

Me too.

 

[Worm]

You do not think that people being against gay marriage is a certain kind of proof of their stupidity better than any I.Q. test maybe even.

Elections offer proof of intelligence?

So, in choosing to ban gay marriage in the election, Californians prove they are "basically idiots".

Speaking as an American for a moment, and not as a Californian, how far would you care to take that logic?

 

[Cassius]

Elections offer proof of intelligence?

So, in choosing to ban gay marriage in the election, Californians prove they are "basically idiots".

Speaking as an American for a moment, and not as a Californian, how far would you care to take that logic?

I can't help it, I just want to pinch his cheeks.

 

[Worm]

I can't help it, I just want to pinch his cheeks.

Pinch away. Just make sure he brushes his teeth and goes to bed by eight.

 

[PregnantForTheLastTime]

I agree with most of that, but I too see now better what I'm dealing with in you Worm.
You do not think that people being against gay marriage is a certain kind of proof of their stupidity better than any I.Q. test maybe even.
Well, I do.

It's not stupidity. It's something completely different. I have a lot of relatives (and even friends) who are against gay marriage, all for their own reasons. They aren't stupid. They believe as they do for various reasons: religious dictates, superstition, ignorance, narrow-mindedness, lack of experience. That's not stupidity. They are all acting on their own best judgement, and are (nearly) all very moral, ethical people with a strong sense of right and wrong.

People are relentlessly manipulable. The vote in California proves only that the side who wanted to ban gay marriage spent more money and hired better strategists and marketers.

You're not morally superior if you believe that gays should be able to marry, you're just more enlightened. There is a difference.

For the record, I am strongly for equal rights in civil partnerships. Drop the word "marry" and it's no longer an issue that can be argued. "Marriage" is a cultural construct rooted in religion. I have never heard an argument against gay marriage that did not invoke religion and/or tradition, and therefore no argument that I have ever heard against it is valid under American law. "Civil partnership" is whatever we define it to be. It's personal incorporation and nothing more. Two adults choose to carry out their personal lives and personal business affairs as partners.

As we said before, a page or two ago, we simply need to make a distinction between "marriage" and "civil partnership." You can go get married in any church, synogogue, coven, whatever, but until you go to the courthouse and sign the papers, it's not legally valid. Simple end to the story.

 

[Oh my god. it's Robby!]

Elections offer proof of intelligence?

So, in choosing to ban gay marriage in the election, Californians prove they are "basically idiots".

Speaking as an American for a moment, and not as a Californian, how far would you care to take that logic?

of course, GW is incredible proof of how truly backward and worse, barbaric much of America is
duh
seriously, in this often horrible place we call "America"
i doubt someone like Obama will even get a 2nd term or not be murdered by some right wing loon if he does
i want it to be different, but we cannot pretend "Florida" and all the evil that came after did not happen
it did, and it did because the stupid sheep that make up most of America are frequently easily lead by the scum who can now be seen on Fox news
"for example"

 

[PregnantForTheLastTime]

I can't help it, I just want to pinch his cheeks.

I just remembered I forgot to buy bananas when I went to the grocery store yesterday.

 

[Oh my god. it's Robby!]

It's not stupidity. It's something completely different. I have a lot of relatives (and even friends) who are against gay marriage, all for their own reasons. They aren't stupid. They believe as they do for various reasons: religious dictates, superstition, ignorance, narrow-mindedness, lack of experience. That's not stupidity. They are all acting on their own best judgement, and are (nearly) all very moral, ethical people with a strong sense of right and wrong.

i have relatives like that, a lot of them, i find most of them to be pretty dumb because of reasons like that they tend to be:
religiously dogmatic, superstitious, ignorant, narrow-minded, and have lead sheltered lives so far, usually rural ones
but i do not think they are immoral because they are like this
if i did, in really would detest seeing them at all i think
instead i just see them as "dumb"
dangerous in their beliefs, but f***in dumb, thank God many dont vote

 

[PregnantForTheLastTime]

of course, GW is incredible proof of how truly backward and worse, barbaric much of America is
duh

Nope, they're just naive. Most people are not backward and barbaric, most people are incredibly kind and decent. But they don't really think, and haven't truly internalized their beliefs. They do as they are told. It's equally dangerous, but it's not malicious.

 

[Oh my god. it's Robby!]

Nope, they're just naive. Most people are not backward and barbaric, most people are incredibly kind and decent. But they don't really think, and haven't truly internalized their beliefs. They do as they are told. It's equally dangerous, but it's not malicious.

ok, ok, its not malicious usually but still

 

[nugz]

Nope, they're just naive. Most people are not backward and barbaric, most people are incredibly kind and decent. But they don't really think, and haven't truly internalized their beliefs. They do as they are told. It's equally dangerous, but it's not malicious.

ok, ok, its not malicious usually but still

pregz is right. the first 20 years of my life, i wasnt backward and barbaric, but i was naive. I was raised in a Baptist home, and Baptist school, and I just didn't know any better. it wasnt until I started letting myself question things did I get out of that mindset.

 

[bored]

pregz is right. the first 20 years of my life, i wasnt backward and barbaric, but i was naive. I was raised in a Baptist home, and Baptist school, and I just didn't know any better. it wasnt until I started letting myself question things did I get out of that mindset.

So what you are saying is.. now you are backward and barbaric?

 

[Oh my god. it's Robby!]

pregz is right. the first 20 years of my life, i wasnt backward and barbaric, but i was naive. I was raised in a Baptist home, and Baptist school, and I just didn't know any better. it wasnt until I started letting myself question things did I get out of that mindset.

well, i think i can see how you can say that about yourself nugzie
but i have my own wounds too over this "stuff"
3 examples of things i have heard close family members say in my presence more than once:

1. they talk about one of my uncles as going to hell becauase he is gay
2. they mock my education because it has not made me rich
3. they look to my failed inter-racial marriage as further proof that the races shouldnt "mix"

so forgive me if i tend to think of some of them as more than just naive
though like i said, i endeavor all the time to turn the other cheek in their presence and not just cuz "its the Christian thing to do"

 

[Worm]

much of America is

But wait a minute!

You can't say "much of" America. It's all or nothing. You said Californians were "basically idiotic" because of Prop 8. That means regardless of what you think of Bush you are "basically barbaric".

Are you now saying, in fact, that "much of"-- oh, say, about 7,001,084-- Californians are idiots? "Much" being misleading, of course, since that figure represents less than half of the 17 million registered voters in California, and a fraction of the state's 37 million people.

What about the 6,401,482 who voted against Prop 8? What of them?

Prop 8 lost 52% to 48%. What if it won 52-48? Would we be badmouthing Californians or praising them to the skies-- and wouldn't that be silly if we did?

Prop 8 is more reflective of reality in the Golden State than Miss California, sure, but it proves absolutely nothing about California other than its electorate is more conservative than many people think.

Come on, Robby. Don't be so down on California. Leave that to others.

But if we're going to generalize, how's this for a nifty statistic?

LOS ANGELES--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Sept. 5, 2001

Cultures of Creativity: The California Experience! Governor Gray Davis has proclaimed October 2001 as "California Nobel Laureate Month."

With the participation of Crown Princess Victoria of Sweden, California will celebrate the centennial of the Nobel Prize October 24-27 with a series of events organized by the Consulates General of Sweden in Los Angeles and San Francisco. California has the largest concentration of Nobel Laureates in the world.

The Swedish Prize, established and funded by inventor, industrialist, philanthropist and humanist, Alfred Nobel (1833-1896), has been awarded to nearly 100 California Laureates, 63 of whom are alive. (n.b. The entire United Kingdom has 113.)

Over the past decade, nearly 25 percent of all Nobel Laureates have been associated with California universities and research institutions. The California Nobel Prize Centennial Celebration program will honor Nobel Laureates and their work statewide.​

Pretty!

Very pretty!

 

[Oh my god. it's Robby!]

how many of those Nobel Laureates did their research in Coalinga?
im just sayin

 

[Worm]

how many of those Nobel Laureates did their research in Coalinga?
im just sayin

One finds all sorts of extremes in a state as vibrant and diverse as California, making generalizations impossible to begin with and galactically silly based on the evidence of this or any Miss California. That's what I'm just sayin.

 

[Oh my god. it's Robby!]

One finds all sorts of extremes in a state as vibrant and diverse as California, making generalizations impossible. That's what I'm just sayin.

we are on the internet, right?
i mean this is all about either incredibly broad generalizations
or very specific personal moments(as i mentioned in another post above)
little in between is possible "here"

 

[Worm]

we are on the internet, right?
i mean this is all about either incredibly broad generalizations
or very specific personal moments(as i mentioned in another post above)
little in between is possible "here"

Well, true enough, and Jesus knows (he shorely do) how much I generalize on the web myself, but you yourself answered my Bush post quite nicely by saying "much of America is barbaric". Six letters. Two words. How hard was that? You can't add a few words to qualify your opinion about Californians? Like, "Boy, do I dislike the less than 1/5th of the people in this state who voted for Prop 8!"

Sorry, Robby. I'm touchy today. I'll let it rest.

 

[Oh my god. it's Robby!]

Well, true enough, and Jesus knows (he shorely do) how much I generalize on the web myself, but you yourself answered my Bush post quite nicely by saying "much of America is barbaric". Six letters. Two words. How hard was that? You can't add a few words to qualify your opinion about Californians? Like, "Boy, do I dislike the less than 1/5th of the people in this state who voted for Prop 8!"

Sorry, Robby. I'm touchy today. I'll let it rest.

oh, im sorry your touchy today dude im just funnin with my generalizing