Morrissey’s view on gender identity

[Lionel Cliffhanger]

Given the current schism on social media about gender identity, I wonder what Morrissey’s view is on the whole gender identity issue?

In some respects you might perhaps think he would lend himself to supporting trans rights given he is a fan of drag eg Mrs Shufflewick and Lypsinka, and when he was younger there was vague talk of a third sex…

However, he appears to remain a massive fan of Germaine Greer and has also expressed dismay as to how JK Rowling has been treated (both massive TERFS - and to be clear I am not using that term as an insult). So I am not 100% sure.

My guess is an English man in his 60s is more likely to be gender critical than not?

Although it is perhaps wise of him (for a change?), not to talk about it at all…

 

[Malarkey]

He said he was a fourth gender.

He has more in common with trans people than gender criticals - but I doubt he'd like all the yelling on social media.

MORRISSEY: "YOUR REAL HOME IS YOUR BODY – NOT YOUR HOUSE OR YOUR APARTMENT!"

28.11.2014 It is a pleasure for me to interview the one and only Morrissey for the third time . This time, I conducted this interview f...

www.veganlogic.net

 

[Gaetano]

Given the current schism on social media about gender identity, I wonder what Morrissey’s view is on the whole gender identity issue?

In some respects you might perhaps think he would lend himself to supporting trans rights given he is a fan of drag eg Mrs Shufflewick and Lypsinka, and when he was younger there was vague talk of a third sex…

However, he appears to remain a massive fan of Germaine Greer and has also expressed dismay as to how JK Rowling has been treated (both massive TERFS - and to be clear I am not using that term as an insult). So I am not 100% sure.

My guess is an English man in his 60s is more likely to be gender critical than not?

Although it is perhaps wise of him (for a change?), not to talk about it at all…

Also, along with his defence of JK Rowling and admiration of Germaine Greer, we can also look to a lot of the feminist writers he and Linder used to read in the 70s and 80s. One that really comes to mind is Janice Raymond and her book "The transsexual Empire", which was the first real critique of transgender ideology in the feminist movement of the 1970s. In a piece in 2004 for FRIEZE, he wrote, "From a rented room in Whalley Range Linder's art supplied the unspoken. She led me by the lapel to Janice G. Raymond’s The Transsexual Empire". He even reference Kate Millett and Dworkin during one of his shows in New York in 2000. Also the way he gendered Genesis P-orridge in the obituary he wrote on Morrissey Central showed how he didn't much care for modern notions of gender ideology in the pronouns he used. If I remember correctly, he also has referenced Mary Daly in past interviews, but I can't seem to find any sources.

 

[Lionel Cliffhanger]

Also, along with his defence of JK Rowling and admiration of Germaine Greer, we can also look to a lot of the feminist writers he and Linder used to read in the 70s and 80s. One that really comes to mind is Janice Raymond and her book "The transsexual Empire", which was the first real critique of transgender ideology in the feminist movement of the 1970s. In a piece in 2004 for FRIEZE, he wrote, "From a rented room in Whalley Range Linder's art supplied the unspoken. She led me by the lapel to Janice G. Raymond’s The Transsexual Empire". He even reference Kate Millett and Dworkin during one of his shows in New York in 2000. Also the way he gendered Genesis P-orridge in the obituary he wrote on Morrissey Central showed how he didn't much care for modern notions of gender ideology in the pronouns he used. If I remember correctly, he also has referenced Mary Daly in past interviews, but I can't seem to find any sources.

Thanks very much for this insight. I was not aware of half of this. This is quite convincing.

 

[Lionel Cliffhanger]

He said he was a fourth gender.

He has more in common with trans people than gender criticals - but I doubt he'd like all the yelling on social media.

MORRISSEY: "YOUR REAL HOME IS YOUR BODY – NOT YOUR HOUSE OR YOUR APARTMENT!"

28.11.2014 It is a pleasure for me to interview the one and only Morrissey for the third time . This time, I conducted this interview f...

www.veganlogic.net

How do you explain his admiration of Germaine Greer, his defence of JK Rowling and all the great points that Gaetano just made in his really informative post?

 

[Malarkey]

How do you explain his admiration of Germaine Greer, his defence of JK Rowling and all the great points that Gaetano just made in his really informative post?

He was young in the 1970s & he didn't actually say anything about why JK was in trouble.

In the interview I posted he said:

All men existed within a female body before we functioned in a male body, so it seems obvious to me that there are less secrets to being male or female than we are trained to accept. Because there is so much profit in the division of the sexes...

 

[Malarkey]

I find it disgusting that people keep trying to drag him into disputes that people with more clout & connections are finding hard to manage.

Let him be with his PETA leaflets. He's been through enough.

 

[Lionel Cliffhanger]

I find it disgusting that people keep trying to drag him into disputes that people with more clout & connections are finding hard to manage.

Let him be with his PETA leaflets. He's been through enough.

for someone disgusted that people keep trying to drag him into disputes, you seem pretty invested in your belief that he shares your views on this?

And I did say he was wise to stay out of this…

 

[Malarkey]

for someone disgusted that people keep trying to drag him into disputes, you seem pretty invested in your belief that he shares your views on this?

And I did say he was wise to stay out of this…

You started a thread connecting him to this issue.

I didn't.

 

[Lionel Cliffhanger]

You started a thread connecting him to this issue.

I didn't.

I did. And I am in no way dragging him into any kind of dispute. I would be amazed if he would ever even be aware of this thread.

I a just interested in what his position would be. You are so disgusted that someone would start a thread on this that you keep on contributing to it.

 

[Malarkey]

I did. And I am in no way dragging him into any kind of dispute. I would be amazed if he would ever even be aware of this thread.

I a just interested in what his position would be. You are so disgusted that someone would start a thread on this that you keep on contributing to it.

Dragging his name in.

He gets a lot of flack for things he hasn't said & isn't involved in.

 

[Lionel Cliffhanger]

Dragging his name in.

He gets a lot of flack for things he hasn't said & isn't involved in.

Fair enough - but you say he hasn’t said things, is not involved in it and find it disgusting for people to talk about Morrissey’s views on this, and yet you are not only convinced he is not gender critical, but you keep on posting on a thread about it.

Perhaps you should consider some self reflection? We probably all new to do that though. Have a good day.

 

[Malarkey]

Fair enough - but you say he hasn’t said things, is not involved in it and find it disgusting for people to talk about Morrissey’s views on this, and yet you are not only convinced he is not gender critical, but you keep on posting on a thread about it.

Perhaps you should consider some self reflection? We probably all new to do that though. Have a good day.

I'm convinced that artists shouldn't be co-opted into things that impact their career.

 

[Mozzypaws]

I find it odd he hasn't spoken on this issue in the past 30 years. It's certainly more popular to talk about now than it was in the 80s when he proclaimed to be a "fourth gender".

I think it fits in with his contrarian nature though

 

[Lionel Cliffhanger]

I find it odd he hasn't spoken on this issue in the past 30 years. It's certainly more popular to talk about now than it was in the 80s when he proclaimed to be a "fourth gender".

I think it fits in with his contrarian nature though

More popular to talk about it maybe, but to me it it’s a bit like Brexit. Two very polarised points of view.

I think most people with a view on this just can not comprehend how people can take the other view?

 

[Rufusindigo]

I find it odd he hasn't spoken on this issue in the past 30 years. It's certainly more popular to talk about now than it was in the 80s when he proclaimed to be a "fourth gender".

I think it fits in with his contrarian nature though

I'm sure he's probably been asked about it, but the fact that he's managed not to comment publicly on this or RB, perhaps means that he's learned something (rightly or wrongly). This is such a divisive, polarising issue, if he did comment on it he really would know how Joan of Arc felt......

 

[Lionel Cliffhanger]

I think he has not been asked about it because he pretty much agrees with whatever is going to be asked!

 

[Malarkey]

He talks about sexuality & gender all the time. He's just not involved in social media arguments.

Morrissey: "I Spearheaded The Movement" Towards Gender Fluidity

The Spent The Day In Bed singer says he's pleased that more people are able to be who they want to be.

www.radiox.co.uk

 

[Gaetano]

He was young in the 1970s & he didn't actually say anything about why JK was in trouble.

In the interview I posted he said:

All men existed within a female body before we functioned in a male body, so it seems obvious to me that there are less secrets to being male or female than we are trained to accept. Because there is so much profit in the division of the sexes...

I think him saying this is very different than the modern transgender philosophy. It's obvious he means this in a more spiritual sense and how all people hold masculine and feminine traits. He is not agreeing with the modern notion that individuals can "change" their gender because they feel different. He is saying that no one fits into these rigid gender ideas and thus it is stupid to say that you "feel" like another gender.

 

[Gaetano]

He talks about sexuality & gender all the time. He's just not involved in social media arguments.

Morrissey: "I Spearheaded The Movement" Towards Gender Fluidity

The Spent The Day In Bed singer says he's pleased that more people are able to be who they want to be.

www.radiox.co.uk

This arcticle is about his attitude on sexuality. Which is not at all the same as modern transgender ideology. It's about how people shouldn't label themselves based on who they sleep with.

And when he says people can wear the clothes they want, that's not the same as him saying people can say they are whatever gender they want and access women's sports, etc