Morrissey needs to sing about gay rights

[james (the despised)]

He obviously should not be shy of the ilk he is from as I am not either. Morrissey my good man, lest we forget where we came, remember dearly please to remind the ignorant souls on this board.

 

[Lifeguard Sleeping]

> He obviously should not be shy of the ilk he is from as I am not
> either. Morrissey my good man, lest we forget where we came,
> remember dearly please to remind the ignorant souls on this
> board.

Please let's not dredge this up again; Morrissey has always been beyond pidgeonholing himself. His lyrics, etc. are universal. Do his lyrics inspire and/or comfort you? Then, isn't that enough?

 

[Get me away from here i'm dying]

> He obviously should not be shy of the ilk he is from as I am not
> either. Morrissey my good man, lest we forget where we came,
> remember dearly please to remind the ignorant souls on this
> board.

Why dont you sing about gay rights?....after all thats what we all want to listen to, im not gay, and i dont want to hear anyone sing about it.To barrow a quote from myself....."be gay on your own time and leave us out of it"

 

[jon]

morrissey does sing about gay rights

"i took my job application into town / did you hear they turned me down / and it's all because of us"

i think it's quite clear (especially from this tour) that morrissey embraces queer culture. for example his sailor suit outfit evokes a nostalgic sense of gay imagery. the man does have a penchant for open ended lyrics and ambiguity, but that is what makes him a good lyricist. when it comes to sexual orientation, i think morrissey may very well mean what he sings in "i can have both" but his appreciation and fascination with gay culture is evident.

(obviously he is unclear about his stance on animal rights as well: on the one hand he claims "meat is murder" while he sings about the erotics of leather car seats.)

 

[jon]

> Why dont you sing about gay rights?....after all thats what we
> all want to listen to, im not gay, and i dont want to hear
> anyone sing about it.To barrow a quote from myself....."be
> gay on your own time and leave us out of it"

hi! you're an idiot.

 

[Get me away from here i'm dying]

> hi! you're an idiot.

Ok....now im the idiot because i'm not gay and i dont care to hear someone sing about it, thats almost like someone saying you are for being gay.....how does that sound....ignorant i would say.You are gay, fine,i dont have anything against it......just dont be the mega gay nazi guy who craps on everyone who isnt.

 

[Nick Seriously]

Jon . . . you go from a thoughtful post to showing your immaturity and insecurity. Lifeguard and Get Me Away have it right . . . find comfort in the songs for your own purposes, rather than focusing on some sort of group objective . . . if Morrissey thought it important to be "direct" with his sexuality, he's had 15 years to do so . . . we all can list a million different sexual references and connotations to his songs, running every which way (and it's that ambiguity that makes his lyrics brilliant).

Promoting agendas? Is that what life is all about? I think Get Me Away's comments were fair, without anger or hatred. I don't think there is an intention to hurt or maim!!

Why is it that those who promote the "gay agenda" cry "idiocy", "hatred" whenever others disagree . . . or, in Get Me Away's case, simply stating that he/she "doesn't care" (that's a rhetorical question, please don't feel compelled to answer . . . or else I'm going to have to list all of the prejudices I've had to face in life given my background etc.!!)?

Nazis to both extremes . . . left and right . . . are simply the causes of so much pain in society because they view life so dogmatically and feel that they can vomit their opinions incessantly without regard to the fact that . . . sometimes, just sometimes, others don't care or just are sick of hearing the same old, tired @#!!!.

If you have anger or insecurities . . . chew on this: Promoting a Gay Agenda is morally wrong (see Bible etc.). Promoting hatred of gays is morally wrong (see Bible etc.). Promoting hatred of gays is morally wrong. Promoting a Gay Agenda is morally wrong. And the circle goes on and on and on and on. Is this worth wasting time on?

Friendly suggestion: don't tie so much of your self-worth into "being gay" or "being anything else". I'm firmly heterosexual (and can go month's without "connecting" with a woman and not be bothered . . . frankly, avoiding women tends to help me in the "peace of mind" area!! mmmm, that's a joke) . . . and I don't think I've spent a moment of my life "champion" that cause. Or any other cause other than "simple peace of mind" and enjoying God's gifts to me.

How's this: Morrissey should champion the fight against AIDS, breast cancer, colon cancer, prostrate cancer, Parkinson's, Lupus, mental illness/disease, etc. . . . if someone wrote a post along this line of thinking, I would be all for it . . . without a doubt . . . because those are REAL life problems. The struggle over our sexuality is NOT . . . because, usually, it simply is the struggle with our own selfishness and narcissism.

To all gays: Move on, enjoy life, enjoy who you are . . . or see a therapist (it works, if you get a good one!!!) . . . or, if you live in an area where gays are bashed etc. and you are feeling the pain of hatred . . . MOVE (do you stay in the desert when you are hungry and thirsty?)!!!!

And if you think that I'm writing this with passion . . . you are right.

P.S. I just took a breath. Jon . . . please, this is not, absolutely not, meant to be mean-spirited.

 

[Lifeguard Sleeping]

Morrissey Needs to Sing Sbout ME

> How's this: Morrissey should champion the fight against AIDS,
> breast cancer, colon cancer, prostrate cancer, Parkinson's,
> Lupus, mental illness/disease, etc. . . . if someone wrote a
> post along this line of thinking, I would be all for it . . .
> without a doubt . . . because those are REAL life problems.

But why must Morrissey be a spokesperson for ANYTHING? Leave that type of stuff to Rage/Sting/Stipe/Sinead etc. etc. etc.

> To all gays: Move on, enjoy life, enjoy who you are . . . or see
> a therapist (it works, if you get a good one!!!) . . .

Uh-oh. PLEASE don't tell me you're actually telling them that therapists can "cure" them of being gay.

> P.S. I just took a breath. Jon . . . please, this is not,
> absolutely not, meant to be mean-spirited.

Neither are my responses; I just want to make sure we're on the same page, here.

 

[jon]

hetrosexism in the morrissey camp

this is the most HOMOPHOBIC sentiment i have ever encountered on this board. it is worse than the "fags die!" posts because it pretends to be rational. telling homosexuals that they should move if they feel threatened? my god! that's a novel way of dealing with oppression: let the oppressors reign!

by stating that you do not want to hear someone celebrate gay culture or even speak about being gay, by saying that the strugle for equal rights is morally wrong, says so much about yourself. what is it that you are afraid of? you must understand the difference between promoting ideology that is dominant and oppressive (ie: the bible) and promoting alternate, inclusive ideologies that have been victim to what is considered "moral."

i am neither immature nor insecure. some people need to be informed of their idiocy.

i agree that the beauty of morrissey's lyrics is often found in ambiguity or indeterminacy but i don't think he is exempt from the political realm. i don't think he wants to be either: otherwise he wouldn't write social criticism.

interesting assumption you make that i tie my self worth into being gay. i'm not gay. just intelligent enough to realize that there isn't an equal playing field out there and that celebrating gay culture (which is a fascinating culture with much social and artistic relevance to offer) does not make one a "nazi."

it is so puzzling to me that morrissey fans can be so blind to what the man is all about. the beauty of moz is that he writes from an almost contemporary feminist perspective, he writes gender theory into pop songs and challenges us to think about archaic and problematic perspectives--perspectives rooted in heterosexism (such as yours).

 

[greasetea]

Re: Jon is arrogant

Listen jerkoff, take that dildo out of your ass and understand that you have a narrow mind and cannot see both sides to the argument. That makes you the most foul creature of all: An arrogant buffoon, go kill yourself with a nice overdose of pepto bismal you grok. No one will miss you and at least now your prayers will be answered you shmuck!

 

[jon]

better to be arrogant than stupid

i think the whole point is this: maybe i don't wanna "take the dildo out of my ass" and maybe that scares you. you are so wrong. i see both sides of the argument and everyone is entitled to their opinion no matter how idiotic. well...except you. i don't believe you should express any more opinions.

there was a time when this board was full of interesting conversations; i suppose you can't go home again eh?

 

[Get me away from here i'm dying]

Re: hetrosexism in the morrissey camp

> this is the most HOMOPHOBIC sentiment i have ever encountered on
> this board. it is worse than the "fags die!" posts
> because it pretends to be rational. telling homosexuals that
> they should move if they feel threatened? my god! that's a novel
> way of dealing with oppression: let the oppressors reign!

> by stating that you do not want to hear someone celebrate gay
> culture or even speak about being gay, by saying that the
> strugle for equal rights is morally wrong, says so much about
> yourself. what is it that you are afraid of? you must understand
> the difference between promoting ideology that is dominant and
> oppressive (ie: the bible) and promoting alternate, inclusive
> ideologies that have been victim to what is considered
> "moral."

> i am neither immature nor insecure. some people need to be
> informed of their idiocy.

> i agree that the beauty of morrissey's lyrics is often found in
> ambiguity or indeterminacy but i don't think he is exempt from
> the political realm. i don't think he wants to be either:
> otherwise he wouldn't write social criticism.

> interesting assumption you make that i tie my self worth into
> being gay. i'm not gay. just intelligent enough to realize that
> there isn't an equal playing field out there and that
> celebrating gay culture (which is a fascinating culture with
> much social and artistic relevance to offer) does not make one a
> "nazi."

> it is so puzzling to me that morrissey fans can be so blind to
> what the man is all about. the beauty of moz is that he writes
> from an almost contemporary feminist perspective, he writes
> gender theory into pop songs and challenges us to think about
> archaic and problematic perspectives--perspectives rooted in
> heterosexism (such as yours).

You are neither rational or logical....no one at any time in this string of posts did we attack your preference,you decide to blow it up into this big "we hate gays thing"WRONG! I think the bottom line was....do what you want to do but dont push it upon us or morrissey to speak out about it.Just take the subject and drop it because we dont care what you do or what you would like.

 

[Kerissa]

Re: hetrosexism in the morrissey camp

> it is so puzzling to me that morrissey fans can be so blind to
> what the man is all about. the beauty of moz is that he writes
> from an almost contemporary feminist perspective, he writes
> gender theory into pop songs and challenges us to think about
> archaic and problematic perspectives--perspectives rooted in
> heterosexism (such as yours).

Yes, he does write about these things, but I don't think that's it's fair of you to say that Morrissey fans don't understand this. Moz attracts fans who are gay and straight, male and female and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I think that what the majority of us are saying, though, is that Moz shouldn't have to put one agenda ahead of others.

Also, say he did admit one day to being gay or bi, what kind of repercussions do you think he would suffer. He shouldn't have to bare that much of his personal life so he'll appeal to one group of individuals more.

 

[Brian]

Are you in Scotland by any chance? And about six feet tall?

 

[driven mad]

In his early songwriting Morrissey expressed his angst at wanting the
one he couldn't have. It was never a gay thing but was almost uniformly homoerotic. In my opinion he found himself attracted to
heterosexual men as frustrating as that can be and fortunately for
all of us was able to express this in his music

 

[jon]

yes but

> Yes, he does write about these things, but I don't think that's
> it's fair of you to say that Morrissey fans don't understand
> this. Moz attracts fans who are gay and straight, male and
> female and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I think
> that what the majority of us are saying, though, is that Moz
> shouldn't have to put one agenda ahead of others.

i only think some morrissey fans don't understand this. you seem to have noticed. for some mysterious reason, they think he is completely straight. it's baffling. i personally don't think you have to be gay to see gay culture as a positive thing.

and lets be honest about this: there is a difference between "agendas" someone speaking from a standpoint of heterosexism is anti-gay. gay culture is predominantly about being inclusive. (this is why morrissey fans are so diverse). heterosexuality is not an evil thing, but it is a position of relative power. much like christianity, what is done on the name of heterosexuality is appalling.

morrissey has the right approach to gender/sexuality issues. he asks questions and is inclusive in his definition of sex. my entire point, initially, was that morrissey does sing about gay rights as well as many other things.

it is very menacing however, to assume that homosexuality is "private" while heterosexuality is a normal "public" entity. this is what others on this board have assumed: its the "fine by me, just don't talk about it" attitude and it is stupid.

 

[Get me away from here i'm dying]

Beating a dead horse

> i only think some morrissey fans don't understand this. you seem
> to have noticed. for some mysterious reason, they think he is
> completely straight. it's baffling. i personally don't think you
> have to be gay to see gay culture as a positive thing.

> and lets be honest about this: there is a difference between
> "agendas" someone speaking from a standpoint of
> heterosexism is anti-gay. gay culture is predominantly about
> being inclusive. (this is why morrissey fans are so diverse).
> heterosexuality is not an evil thing, but it is a position of
> relative power. much like christianity, what is done on the name
> of heterosexuality is appalling.

> morrissey has the right approach to gender/sexuality issues. he
> asks questions and is inclusive in his definition of sex. my
> entire point, initially, was that morrissey does sing about gay
> rights as well as many other things.

> it is very menacing however, to assume that homosexuality is
> "private" while heterosexuality is a normal
> "public" entity. this is what others on this board
> have assumed: its the "fine by me, just don't talk about
> it" attitude and it is stupid.

Who said it was abnormal?......i dont see anyone else on here talk about they like sexualy.You know why?.....because no one cares, do what you feel is right and shut your stupid trap.As i recall i have never read an interview in that morrissey said he was gay(or a champion of such)of course he never said he was straight......this would lead us to think that he doesnt want us to know either way,people(gay or straight)make what they want of it,like he's for one side or the other.People like to be blind when things point to the view they have.

 

[A Jumped-Up Pantry Girl]

> He obviously should not be shy of the ilk he is from as I am not
> either. Morrissey my good man, lest we forget where we came,
> remember dearly please to remind the ignorant souls on this
> board.

Hmmm... that's funny. I thought Morrissey DID sing about gay rights... or at least the gay experience:

"How can they see the love in our eyes and still they don't believe us?/And after all this time, they don't want to believe us/And if they don't believe us now, will they ever believe us?/And when you want to live, how do you start? Where do you go? Who do you need to know?"

"Love is natural and real/But not for such as you and I my love"

"I am hated for loving/I am haunted for wanting"

"There is a place reserved for me and my friends/And when we go, we all will go/So you see I'm never alone...All that we hope is when we go/Our skin and our blood and our bones/Don't get in your way, making you ill/The way they did when we lived/There is a place, a place in hell/Reserved for me and my friends/And if ever I just wanted to cry/Then I will 'cause I can"

"Now you know the truth about me/You won't see me anymore/But I'm still fond of you"

"I love you/And is it really so strange?/I say, 'No'/You say, 'Yes'/But you will change your mind!"

Or am I reading too much into these lines? ;-)

 

[Seems a Little Strange]

> Hmmm... that's funny. I thought Morrissey DID sing about gay
> rights... or at least the gay experience:

> "How can they see the love in our eyes and still they don't
> believe us?/And after all this time, they don't want to believe
> us/And if they don't believe us now, will they ever believe
> us?/And when you want to live, how do you start? Where do you
> go? Who do you need to know?"

> "Love is natural and real/But not for such as you and I my
> love"

> "I am hated for loving/I am haunted for wanting"

> "There is a place reserved for me and my friends/And when
> we go, we all will go/So you see I'm never alone...All that we
> hope is when we go/Our skin and our blood and our bones/Don't
> get in your way, making you ill/The way they did when we
> lived/There is a place, a place in hell/Reserved for me and my
> friends/And if ever I just wanted to cry/Then I will 'cause I
> can"

> "Now you know the truth about me/You won't see me
> anymore/But I'm still fond of you"

> "I love you/And is it really so strange?/I say, 'No'/You
> say, 'Yes'/But you will change your mind!"

> Or am I reading too much into these lines? ;-)

Yes, you are! Or maybe your not. You can relate most of those quotes to your personal romantic misfortunes. That's why we love the man. He speaks to us and for us.

As to Jon's quoting "Billy Budd" up thread, I've always thought it was about Johnny.

As to what Moz has to say on this tired subject -"I don't want to be shoved into a box and put into a category...Ultimately, people will see what they want to see in the whole aspect of what I do and my motivations. I'm not embarrassed about the word 'gay', but it's not in the least bit relevant. I'm beyond that, frankly."

 

[URSULA]

Everyone has something to bring to this discussion...

...but from now on, the thing you should bring, greasestain, is silence.