I started something I couldn't finish: the Smiths reunion that wasn't - The Guardian

A somewhat padded-out interview with Messrs Joyce and Gannon about the recent Classically Smiths debacle.

I started something I couldn't finish: the Smiths reunion that wasn't - The Guardian
Three former members of the indie band were due to reunite for a series of gigs that fell apart as soon as they were announced. Mike Joyce and Craig Gannon explain why they tried to make it happen

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Related item:

• "Classically Smiths" shows no longer going forward - Mike Joyce, Craig Gannon statements on FB - Jan. 23, 2018

 

[Charlie Cheswick]

It was a story UncleSkinny mentioned in passing a few weeks ago. If you read the posts above it seems others already know (and in some cases believe) it. But I still haven't heard any details which would make it believable to me. I keep hoping someone will provide the missing bits of the jigsaw!

Thanks, I read through all of that but couldn't find anything to make it make sense.

 

[Peppermint]

Thanks, I read through all of that but couldn't find anything to make it make sense.

No, it doesn't. It seems to be an old story that's just resurfaced. From memory, I think Skinny said he was told it in a meeting with someone 'in the know', but why he and others find it credible, I'm not sure.

 

[Halloway]

Do you believe it, though?

No, it never rang true to me.

 

[firstodie]

I think Mike was in awe of Morrissey and maybe felt a bit cloddish in his presence. When you're young, the slightest whiff of the exotic can throw you for six, and in the eighties, it would have felt wildly subversive to Mike to associate with such a camp individual. A lot of straight men beat themselves up because they misread the camp and pithiness of the homosexual, as somehow indicative of a superior intellect to their own. This is sweet, but a shame because Mike strikes me a just as cerebral as Morrissey..Anyway, perhaps he felt a bit cowed at the beginning, and they were all still young, and he just went along with things, but then as fame ensued, band dynamics changed, and they all grew a few years older (a couple of years may as well be a decade, you change so fast when you're young), he perhaps came to resent the put -downs that he had once been oblivious to , and by this time he'd 'put in the hours' and the initial awe may have worn off a bit. Around this time he probably felt hurt and devalued as an employee and this is why he may have taken the action he did later, when he was out of the situation and could do something about it. I don't know, maybe Morrissey is just angry with himself for planting that initial resentment?

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

View attachment 43631

A broken record is the redundant & flawed opinions that Mike Joyce 'won'. When they stop, I'll stop playing the record of ...TRUTH !




k-s my

 

[Oh my]

A broken record is the redundant & flawed opinions that Mike Joyce 'won'. When they stop, I'll stop playing the record of ...TRUTH !

k-s my

Sometimes it's like if you were the only sane person on the forum.

 

[g23]

A broken record is the redundant & flawed opinions that Mike Joyce 'won'. When they stop, I'll stop playing the record of ...TRUTH !




k-s my

1990 something was a long time ago. By paying him attention, you rent him mental real estate.
#winning?

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Sometimes it's like if you were the only sane person on the forum.

So true ! My job it seems will never be done here. It's a burden sometimes, but with a little hope, people will come around and see the light of truth ! they're either crazy or just square or both? don't know.

 

[Anonymous]

The puppet master behind this sudden demise is clearly Marr. Who no doubt threatened to cut off Rourke's royalty stream. Likely the downside of his settling was he signed away his right to represent himself as "The Smiths" or part thereof, in any way. You don't get to live in New York City rent-free.

From what you are saying Johnny Marr keeps Andy Rourke supplied with money through his royalties. Johnny Marr threatened to stop the money if Andy Rourke went ahead with these concerts. Is this really true though? Doesn't Andy Rourke make good money as a DJ? The DJ money would be enough to pay his rent or mortgage in New York.

 

[Anonymous]

"For those who are destroyed by the collapse of Classical Smiths they should comfort themselves in the knowledge that the last ember of The Smiths is on tour ever so soon." - Morrissey (as Dawn on Twitter) 26 Jan 2018

Did Morrissey really say this about the Classically Smiths project?

 

[Quando quando quando]

Did Morrissey really say this about the Classically Smiths project?

Didn’t you see the words coming out of his mouth? No?
Neither did I, so by his own rules, he didn’t say it.

 

[URBANUS]

Prefer her this age and this way, what a dream girl!

LOL

 

[URBANUS]

Joyce looks so much like Christer now, moms best mates son. He nicked cars cause he never was able to get a drivers license cause of alcohol and drug abuse but when he was in his 50's he finally was able to get a license for a moped motor car which he drove with pride.

In the end his life turned out ok after years and years of struggle. I think about that when I look at Joyce there.

 

[Dingoatemybabby]

No, it doesn't. It seems to be an old story that's just resurfaced. From memory, I think Skinny said he was told it in a meeting with someone 'in the know', but why he and others find it credible, I'm not sure.

There's no proof, if you mean a grainy b&w photo taken through Morrissey's bedroom window, etc. Moz would probably go to his grave denying any kind of affair. If Joyce is paid enough money, we might get a cheesy tell all book. But you know what, that's neither here nor there. The break up of the Smiths was about power, not about sex. And specifically about how that imbalance of power upset Johnny and he left. That was the final straw.

And because it may have involved sex along with betrayal, misunderstandings, massive egos, that's why the end was so obfuscated.

This is the thread where I first saw the rumor and I weighed in with my thoughts:

https://www.morrissey-solo.com/thre...nks-of-korda-marshall-at-bmg.141039/#comments

Happy reading and good night!

 

[notawoman]

Somewhere I´ve read Johnny has been really upset that Mike Joyce was the one telling him that they were going to do a Cilla Black cover (Work...).

 

[Peppermint]

There's no proof, if you mean a grainy b&w photo taken through Morrissey's bedroom window, etc. Moz would probably go to his grave denying any kind of affair. If Joyce is paid enough money, we might get a cheesy tell all book. But you know what, that's neither here nor there. The break up of the Smiths was about power, not about sex. And specifically about how that imbalance of power upset Johnny and he left. That was the final straw.

And because it may have involved sex along with betrayal, misunderstandings, massive egos, that's why the end was so obfuscated.

This is the thread where I first saw the rumor and I weighed in with my thoughts:

https://www.morrissey-solo.com/thre...nks-of-korda-marshall-at-bmg.141039/#comments

Happy reading and good night!

Thanks Dingo, but I read all of that thread at the time (I was a lurker here for a long time before I signed up). I thought there might have been something more. Do you know who Skinny's source was? I'm thinking, if someone had an axe to grind with Morrissey (and let's face it, there are plenty of those), putting out such a rumour to a mod on this site would be a good way to embarrass him. To me, because Mike is the person Morrissey would least like to admit to having shagged, ever, in the whole world, by some margin, it's kind of funny. I do wonder if someone thought they would have a joke at Morrissey's (and our) expense.

In fact it even reminded me of the hilarious Inaccurate Smiths Quotes site http://inaccuratesmithsquotes.tumblr.com/ Example:
"One time, Morrissey was being a little bitch, so I put toothpaste in his Oreos. He cried." - Johnny Marr

Anyway, that's not to rubbish it completely. I'm keeping an open mind, but...

 

[Anonymous]

Johnny marr in Record Collector 1992:

"The Smiths was me and Morrissey. It was me and Morrissey at the start. When we brought in Mike and Andy, it was made clear to them. It was unusual for the whole focus of the group to be around a songwriting team, but that was fundamental to the Smiths' ethic. When I went round to see Andy to ask him to join the group, I laid out the terms to be fair. I wanted this to be a new group with a realistic outlook. Myself and Morrissey had already started writing songs. At the initial meeting with Joe, we said if we can't find the right musicians, then we'll write songs a la Brill Building writers. We had all that space. Morrissey was saying 'I'd like to write a song for Sandie Shaw'. That was the way we felt. For my part, it was the Leiber/Stoller, Jagger/Richard, Lennon/McCartney vibe. So, from day one, Mike and Andy knew they didn't have to do 25% of the work in every area. That was the understanding. They could leave the studio whenever they were finished, and we couldn't. They could. We were the ones who had to deal with shit with Joe, shit with Scott and shit with Rough Trade. It suited Mike and Andy right down to the ground, because it was me and Morrissey that ran the group, and who physically did all the things except play live. All of us played live. In the studio, it was all of us doing the tapes, but everybody else skedaddled when their bit of work was done, whereas, me and Morrissey were together every single day."

 

[Anonymous]

moz didnt spend many years demanding cash, simply arranged it to be paid here in the States before the shows are even announced. the money at the box office does not go to moz but the promoters and arrangers which mike really has to claim to. LOL
Moz really one upped him. but i mean, didnt he collect from Marr? what more does he want? why not try to find employment? he should say thx mozz for the whatever he did get, because otherwise nobody would have ever heard of him.

Yes, allegedly the story is he attempted to put a lien on Morrissey's Mom's house, with the hope of forcing a sale to get his money. When that failed, allegedly he went after Johnny Marr, who in the end did pay Morrissey's share.
If these stories are true I'm not sure why he thought he would get approval using Morrissey and Marr's material on this project. Maybe he thought because Andy Rourke and Johnny Marr's maintain a friendship, by getting Rourke's name on the project would have helped?

 

[Dingoatemybabby]

http://inaccuratesmithsquotes.tumblr.com/[/URL] Example:
"One time, Morrissey was being a little bitch, so I put toothpaste in his Oreos. He cried." - Johnny Marr.

I love that Tumblr site! So FUNNY!

Well, to each their own, re: Moz/Joyce. I thought it explained why Johnny suddenly felt so isolated in the band - which he states repeatedly in the book, he just doesn't say why or what happened to make him feel that way.

As for Moz, who knows, maybe he was tired of being lonely. But as for the power play, in his book, he writes how shocked and betrayed he felt when he found Johnny in the studio with Bryan Ferry. He probably went straight home and wrote "I Won't Share You" I think he thought if he took Johnny down a few notches, then he would be more dedicated to the Smiths, instead it had the complete opposite and unintended effect.

And Joyce - maybe simple attraction? Maybe 25%? Which if you've read any of the legal documents, he'd asked Moz about and offered to help manage the band at one point for a larger share. Moz turned him down and said basically Joyce could leave the band if he was unhappy. The 10% was the deal, it was the deal all along. It just was not on paper.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, allegedly the story is he attempted to put a lien on Morrissey's Mom's house, with the hope of forcing a sale to get his money. When that failed, allegedly he went after Johnny Marr, who in the end did pay Morrissey's share.
If these stories are true I'm not sure why he thought he would get approval using Morrissey and Marr's material on this project. Maybe he thought because Andy Rourke and Johnny Marr's maintain a friendship, by getting Rourke's name on the project would have helped?

what does going after the gig money have to do with the moms house?
allegedly Marr paid Moz share LOL really? NO

Joyce is a waste of skin for sure. he should consider getting a job.