I started something I couldn't finish: the Smiths reunion that wasn't - The Guardian

A somewhat padded-out interview with Messrs Joyce and Gannon about the recent Classically Smiths debacle.

I started something I couldn't finish: the Smiths reunion that wasn't - The Guardian
Three former members of the indie band were due to reunite for a series of gigs that fell apart as soon as they were announced. Mike Joyce and Craig Gannon explain why they tried to make it happen

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Related item:

• "Classically Smiths" shows no longer going forward - Mike Joyce, Craig Gannon statements on FB - Jan. 23, 2018

 

[Peppermint]

I love that Tumblr site! So FUNNY!

Well, to each their own, re: Moz/Joyce. I thought it explained why Johnny suddenly felt so isolated in the band - which he states repeatedly in the book, he just doesn't say why or what happened to make him feel that way.

As for Moz, who knows, maybe he was tired of being lonely. But as for the power play, in his book, he writes how shocked and betrayed he felt when he found Johnny in the studio with Bryan Ferry. He probably went straight home and wrote "I Won't Share You" I think he thought if he took Johnny down a few notches, then he would be more dedicated to the Smiths, instead it had the complete opposite and unintended effect.

And Joyce - maybe simple attraction? Maybe 25%? Which if you've read any of the legal documents, he'd asked Moz about and offered to help manage the band at one point for a larger share. Moz turned him down and said basically Joyce could leave the band if he was unhappy. The 10% was the deal, it was the deal all along. It just was not on paper.

It's certainly an explanation, but in my mind an unlikely one. It is intriguing though, and I can't help feeling there's more to know. So many simmering dynamics and conflicting agendas! One day the tale will be told, no doubt. I certainly wouldn't be a bit surprised if Morrissey wasn't really celibate - I'm sure I read a quote from Joe Moss's son saying that wasn't true.

As for the 10% business, I'm honestly not sure who to believe there. I didn't read the legal documents, but presumably what you've quoted is just a record of what Morrissey said - and we know Morrissey lies when it suits. Then again, if what you're suggesting is true, it sounds like Morrissey wasn't particularly attached to Mike anyway.

Glad you like the Tumblr site. "WHY DOES EVERYBODY IN THIS FANDOM CALL ME MILK JUICE? THAT’S NOT MY f***ING NAME. THAT’S LIKE… 25% OF MY ACTUAL NAME." - Mike Joyce

 

[Anonymous]

what does going after the gig money have to do with the moms house?
allegedly Marr paid Moz share LOL really? NO

Joyce is a waste of skin for sure. he should consider getting a job.

9. In 2001, Joyce attempted to seize both my mother's house and my sister's house by claiming that I had taken my assets out of the UK; he made this claim even though he had direct access to all of the above – which are in the UK. Joyce eventually dropped both of these claims due to lack of evidence, and he refused to pay the 150 thousand pounds that it had cost me to defend his groundless claims. Joyce also dropped his claim as co-composer with Johnny M on Smiths compositions, and Joyce also dropped his claim for Producer royalties on Smiths recordings, and Joyce also dropped his claim for a share of Artwork payments given to me for providing Smiths record sleeves. There were, in fact, no payments to me for Smiths Artwork. Joyce made a further claim for 25% of all Smiths t-shirts sold during the '83 to '87 period, even though there was no evidence that any royalty for t-shirts had been received by either myself or Johnny Marr.

10. In legal fees alone, Joyce has cost me 600 thousand pounds - this is quite apart from any payments made to him, and is quite apart from any money seized by him. In total, Joyce has cost me 1 million, 515 thousand pounds. This is an approximate figure - it could even be higher.

11. The Joyce action is continuous. Because of his Default Judgment he continues to take my royalties, and the royalties of others mentioned above, from Warner Music - consequently I have not received record royalties since 2001.

12. Since 2001, the money claimed by Joyce is charged, to me, at 100 pounds a day in interest.

13. During the Smiths' lifetime, when Joyce willingly took a 10% royalty, he did not contribute towards any expenses of any kind, did not take on any Partnership duties or responsibilities, and he received his 10% as gross earnings.

The point I wish to make is this: Joyce is not poor, unless, living as he does in the Cheshire green-belt, he lives beyond his means. Somehow, he appears to believe that he should have equal financial status to both myself and to Johnny Marr, even though Joyce has done dramatically less than Johnny and I to attain the positions we now have.

Joyce is not poor because of one reason - me. His career now is the fictitious position of an unpaid ex-member of the Smiths. He has also pursued all of his claims on Legal Aid.

I don't make this statement in search of sympathy from anyone, but I wish that the people at MorrisseySoLow who support Joyce would at least get their facts right before they say anything. Even with his 10% share, Joyce was wealthy. Now, he is extremely wealthy.

What more does he want?

I have fought the Joyce action as much as I could over the years, but the simple truth is that, under British law, the word of a judge will not be overturned. In the absence of any evidence from the 1980s, the judge in this case relied upon the Partnership Act of 1890 to help Joyce win his claim. Joyce has exploited the judge's final verdict in order to get as much as he can from me, from Johnny Marr, and also from Andy Rourke.

Finally, Joyce does not have the legal right to sell unreleased Smiths material - it belongs to Warner Music. Joyce did not pay for the recording time under which any demo material was recorded. Furthermore, Joyce cannot sell any unreleased work by Johnny Marr or Andy Rourke without, at very least, their permission.

Thanks for reading this,
MORRISSEY.

 

[marred]

They started something that has already finished... in 1987.

 

[Anonymous]

9. In 2001, Joyce attempted to seize both my mother's house and my sister's house by claiming that I had taken my assets out of the UK; he made this claim even though he had direct access to all of the above – which are in the UK. Joyce eventually dropped both of these claims due to lack of evidence, and he refused to pay the 150 thousand pounds that it had cost me to defend his groundless claims. Joyce also dropped his claim as co-composer with Johnny M on Smiths compositions, and Joyce also dropped his claim for Producer royalties on Smiths recordings, and Joyce also dropped his claim for a share of Artwork payments given to me for providing Smiths record sleeves. There were, in fact, no payments to me for Smiths Artwork. Joyce made a further claim for 25% of all Smiths t-shirts sold during the '83 to '87 period, even though there was no evidence that any royalty for t-shirts had been received by either myself or Johnny Marr.

10. In legal fees alone, Joyce has cost me 600 thousand pounds - this is quite apart from any payments made to him, and is quite apart from any money seized by him. In total, Joyce has cost me 1 million, 515 thousand pounds. This is an approximate figure - it could even be higher.

11. The Joyce action is continuous. Because of his Default Judgment he continues to take my royalties, and the royalties of others mentioned above, from Warner Music - consequently I have not received record royalties since 2001.

12. Since 2001, the money claimed by Joyce is charged, to me, at 100 pounds a day in interest.

13. During the Smiths' lifetime, when Joyce willingly took a 10% royalty, he did not contribute towards any expenses of any kind, did not take on any Partnership duties or responsibilities, and he received his 10% as gross earnings.

The point I wish to make is this: Joyce is not poor, unless, living as he does in the Cheshire green-belt, he lives beyond his means. Somehow, he appears to believe that he should have equal financial status to both myself and to Johnny Marr, even though Joyce has done dramatically less than Johnny and I to attain the positions we now have.

Joyce is not poor because of one reason - me. His career now is the fictitious position of an unpaid ex-member of the Smiths. He has also pursued all of his claims on Legal Aid.

I don't make this statement in search of sympathy from anyone, but I wish that the people at MorrisseySoLow who support Joyce would at least get their facts right before they say anything. Even with his 10% share, Joyce was wealthy. Now, he is extremely wealthy.

What more does he want?

I have fought the Joyce action as much as I could over the years, but the simple truth is that, under British law, the word of a judge will not be overturned. In the absence of any evidence from the 1980s, the judge in this case relied upon the Partnership Act of 1890 to help Joyce win his claim. Joyce has exploited the judge's final verdict in order to get as much as he can from me, from Johnny Marr, and also from Andy Rourke.

Finally, Joyce does not have the legal right to sell unreleased Smiths material - it belongs to Warner Music. Joyce did not pay for the recording time under which any demo material was recorded. Furthermore, Joyce cannot sell any unreleased work by Johnny Marr or Andy Rourke without, at very least, their permission.

Thanks for reading this,
MORRISSEY.

Cheshire? "lovely" Cheshire where Surface is purported to 'live'? hmmmm



I dont know that just because Joyce has a judgement on Moz that entitles him to take stuff
from his relatives. Im hoping thats not how the UK legal system works LOL
If the houses are not in Moz name he is pretty much screwed.
Joyce is a fing remora.
so is Andy...
both are so annoying in their refusal to get work and wanting to live off Moz.

I laughed out loud when i read about their being producers and songwriters. they can barely play their instruments LOL I would be shocked if they could write a limerick. LOL
Joyce couldnt ger arrested at a bongo confrence.

 

[Anonymous]

9. In 2001, Joyce attempted to seize both my mother's house and my sister's house by claiming that I had taken my assets out of the UK; he made this claim even though he had direct access to all of the above – which are in the UK. Joyce eventually dropped both of these claims due to lack of evidence, and he refused to pay the 150 thousand pounds that it had cost me to defend his groundless claims. Joyce also dropped his claim as co-composer with Johnny M on Smiths compositions, and Joyce also dropped his claim for Producer royalties on Smiths recordings, and Joyce also dropped his claim for a share of Artwork payments given to me for providing Smiths record sleeves. There were, in fact, no payments to me for Smiths Artwork. Joyce made a further claim for 25% of all Smiths t-shirts sold during the '83 to '87 period, even though there was no evidence that any royalty for t-shirts had been received by either myself or Johnny Marr.

10. In legal fees alone, Joyce has cost me 600 thousand pounds - this is quite apart from any payments made to him, and is quite apart from any money seized by him. In total, Joyce has cost me 1 million, 515 thousand pounds. This is an approximate figure - it could even be higher.

11. The Joyce action is continuous. Because of his Default Judgment he continues to take my royalties, and the royalties of others mentioned above, from Warner Music - consequently I have not received record royalties since 2001.

12. Since 2001, the money claimed by Joyce is charged, to me, at 100 pounds a day in interest.

13. During the Smiths' lifetime, when Joyce willingly took a 10% royalty, he did not contribute towards any expenses of any kind, did not take on any Partnership duties or responsibilities, and he received his 10% as gross earnings.

The point I wish to make is this: Joyce is not poor, unless, living as he does in the Cheshire green-belt, he lives beyond his means. Somehow, he appears to believe that he should have equal financial status to both myself and to Johnny Marr, even though Joyce has done dramatically less than Johnny and I to attain the positions we now have.

Joyce is not poor because of one reason - me. His career now is the fictitious position of an unpaid ex-member of the Smiths. He has also pursued all of his claims on Legal Aid.

I don't make this statement in search of sympathy from anyone, but I wish that the people at MorrisseySoLow who support Joyce would at least get their facts right before they say anything. Even with his 10% share, Joyce was wealthy. Now, he is extremely wealthy.

What more does he want?

I have fought the Joyce action as much as I could over the years, but the simple truth is that, under British law, the word of a judge will not be overturned. In the absence of any evidence from the 1980s, the judge in this case relied upon the Partnership Act of 1890 to help Joyce win his claim. Joyce has exploited the judge's final verdict in order to get as much as he can from me, from Johnny Marr, and also from Andy Rourke.

Finally, Joyce does not have the legal right to sell unreleased Smiths material - it belongs to Warner Music. Joyce did not pay for the recording time under which any demo material was recorded. Furthermore, Joyce cannot sell any unreleased work by Johnny Marr or Andy Rourke without, at very least, their permission.

Thanks for reading this,
MORRISSEY.

Devious. Truculent. Unreliable. Cry Me A River.

 

[Anonymous]

Cheshire? "lovely" Cheshire where Surface is purported to 'live'? hmmmm



I dont know that just because Joyce has a judgement on Moz that entitles him to take stuff
from his relatives. Im hoping thats not how the UK legal system works LOL
If the houses are not in Moz name he is pretty much screwed.
Joyce is a fing remora.
so is Andy...
both are so annoying in their refusal to get work and wanting to live off Moz.

I laughed out loud when i read about their being producers and songwriters. they can barely play their instruments LOL I would be shocked if they could write a limerick. LOL
Joyce couldnt ger arrested at a bongo confrence.

They can barely play their instruments? The only bongo around here is you.

 

[URBANUS]

9. In 2001, Joyce attempted to seize both my mother's house and my sister's house by claiming that I had taken my assets out of the UK; he made this claim even though he had direct access to all of the above – which are in the UK. Joyce eventually dropped both of these claims due to lack of evidence, and he refused to pay the 150 thousand pounds that it had cost me to defend his groundless claims. Joyce also dropped his claim as co-composer with Johnny M on Smiths compositions, and Joyce also dropped his claim for Producer royalties on Smiths recordings, and Joyce also dropped his claim for a share of Artwork payments given to me for providing Smiths record sleeves. There were, in fact, no payments to me for Smiths Artwork. Joyce made a further claim for 25% of all Smiths t-shirts sold during the '83 to '87 period, even though there was no evidence that any royalty for t-shirts had been received by either myself or Johnny Marr.

10. In legal fees alone, Joyce has cost me 600 thousand pounds - this is quite apart from any payments made to him, and is quite apart from any money seized by him. In total, Joyce has cost me 1 million, 515 thousand pounds. This is an approximate figure - it could even be higher.

11. The Joyce action is continuous. Because of his Default Judgment he continues to take my royalties, and the royalties of others mentioned above, from Warner Music - consequently I have not received record royalties since 2001.

12. Since 2001, the money claimed by Joyce is charged, to me, at 100 pounds a day in interest.

13. During the Smiths' lifetime, when Joyce willingly took a 10% royalty, he did not contribute towards any expenses of any kind, did not take on any Partnership duties or responsibilities, and he received his 10% as gross earnings.

The point I wish to make is this: Joyce is not poor, unless, living as he does in the Cheshire green-belt, he lives beyond his means. Somehow, he appears to believe that he should have equal financial status to both myself and to Johnny Marr, even though Joyce has done dramatically less than Johnny and I to attain the positions we now have.

Joyce is not poor because of one reason - me. His career now is the fictitious position of an unpaid ex-member of the Smiths. He has also pursued all of his claims on Legal Aid.

I don't make this statement in search of sympathy from anyone, but I wish that the people at MorrisseySoLow who support Joyce would at least get their facts right before they say anything. Even with his 10% share, Joyce was wealthy. Now, he is extremely wealthy.

What more does he want?

I have fought the Joyce action as much as I could over the years, but the simple truth is that, under British law, the word of a judge will not be overturned. In the absence of any evidence from the 1980s, the judge in this case relied upon the Partnership Act of 1890 to help Joyce win his claim. Joyce has exploited the judge's final verdict in order to get as much as he can from me, from Johnny Marr, and also from Andy Rourke.

Finally, Joyce does not have the legal right to sell unreleased Smiths material - it belongs to Warner Music. Joyce did not pay for the recording time under which any demo material was recorded. Furthermore, Joyce cannot sell any unreleased work by Johnny Marr or Andy Rourke without, at very least, their permission.

Thanks for reading this,
MORRISSEY.

Morrissey is a complete liar, in fact I believe he is a pathological one. Those tend to go on about the police a lot which is part of the mental illness.

Morrissey by refusing to pay the band (his staff more or less) almost put his mother on the street and it seems yet another family member as well. He was ordered to pay and did and by questioning that he could and should be prosecuted for contempt of the court ruling. Anyone can file such a complaint and I know from a source that has in fact been done.

Morrissey is on a very slippery slope now and should refrain from taking on the british courts again as that would end very badly for him. He slams Trump and other people and call them this and that but in the end he is just like those people himself and even worse cause Trump would never put any of his family members on the street in order to try and prove a point.

Morrissey lost the case and then became a very bitter man whose opinions completely clash with the views he promotes as a singer. The man is a pathological liar and when I read about the disorder on a swedish website and it ended by explaining how these individuals tend to talk about the police a lot.

Gotcha Mozza!

 

[ALLIE WALLS]

i m glad it has nt gone on for whatever reason, daft idea anyway, the smiths were what they were when they were and any deviation is shit, its nice to hear Morrissey or jonny do the odd smiths song live but a tour of smiths songs played with an orchestra by bit players is lets face it just a cash in that can only tarnish their heritage. I doubt a full reunion will ever happen and at this stage and at our time of life it would also be a cash in sham. The past is dead boys but I hope most of us are no longer on a limb.

 

[Anonymous]

Devious. Truculent. Unreliable. Cry Me A River.

Ironic, isnt it, with Mike knowing Andy wasnt in but then going on at the press confrence as if he was: Devious
then claiming otherwise about 5 min later: Unreliable. Mega Unreliable LOL
his bill collector solicitors take up the truculent Part LOL

i like the tight fitting suit, i wonder where in lovely Cheshire did he make the purchase. Maybe its rented.
it not like he needs it to go to pub.

 

[Anonymous]

They can barely play their instruments? The only bongo around here is you.

the truth made you jump LOL they suck. cannon too.
maybe they are in high demand by the music world but are deaf and cant hear the calls.
(that dont exist because nobody wants them.)

they should be thanking Moz not suing him without him they would have been unknown. probably be playing dominoes in portugal or something

 

[Anonymous]

Thankfully, this "non-story" has now ended (before it even began, so to speak.) And the Press has moved on....

Let's put an end to this turgid tale and get back to thinking about the forthcoming MORRISSEY tour....thankfully on a different post.

Hazard
x

 

[The Wild Turkey]

So true ! My job it seems will never be done here. It's a burden sometimes, but with a little hope, people will come around and see the light of truth ! they're either crazy or just square or both? don't know.

No one else can do it like ya do. Here's to ya!
The filthier these noodles act, just makes your light shine brighter.

 

[Anonymous]

the truth made you jump LOL they suck. cannon too.
maybe they are in high demand by the music world but are deaf and cant hear the calls.
(that dont exist because nobody wants them.)

they should be thanking Moz not suing him without him they would have been unknown. probably be playing dominoes in portugal or something

Well, at least you emojis think you are funny.

Morrissey disagrees with you:

“bomb-burst drumming, explosive chords, combative basslines, and over it all I am as free as a hawk to paint the canvas as I wish. It is a gift from Jesus.”

So you play dominoes in Portugal?

 

[Anonymous]

i m glad it has nt gone on for whatever reason, daft idea anyway, the smiths were what they were when they were and any deviation is shit, its nice to hear Morrissey or jonny do the odd smiths song live but a tour of smiths songs played with an orchestra by bit players is lets face it just a cash in that can only tarnish their heritage. I doubt a full reunion will ever happen and at this stage and at our time of life it would also be a cash in sham. The past is dead boys but I hope most of us are no longer on a limb.

I agree with your opinion on Morrissey's version of This Charming Man. Absolutely vile. The guitar sounds like it is being mauled by a Russian bear.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

 

[Anonymous]

Well, at least you emojis think you are funny.

Morrissey disagrees with you:

“bomb-burst drumming, explosive chords, combative basslines, and over it all I am as free as a hawk to paint the canvas as I wish. It is a gift from Jesus.”

So you play dominoes in Portugal?

Ok so there has been practically no interest in their musical-and i use the term very loosely- services for the past 3o years because they DONT suck? LOL

moz has said they suck numerous times. they suck. the only success in life they ve had is slurping off moz.
thats it.


thats funny, how mike said him and gannon went to the basement and played together and SURPRISE!:
it sounded great!! LOL. what a load.
even you is not so gullible to believe that story. andy playing along on the phone.
if the violin concert had taken place you can know they all would have been inaudible
in the mix for one simple reason: they cant play they suck.

 

[Harsh Truth]

What are the odds Morrissey (or someone on his behalf) wrote the above-post attributed to him? 3% ?

I mean, it was a good post. But, c’mon.

 

[Anonymous]

You are snoring, you do not want to believe.

 

[Nathalie]

What are the odds Morrissey (or someone on his behalf) wrote the above-post attributed to him? 3% ?

I mean, it was a good post. But, c’mon.

Hi HT,
In that case, it would be an "identity theft" because the name is clearly mentionned, unless the third person has been authorized to use the name.
And I don't think so.

 

[nicky wire's legs]

What are the odds Morrissey (or someone on his behalf) wrote the above-post attributed to him? 3% ?

I mean, it was a good post. But, c’mon.

It's mozzer! Trust me, I know!

Hi moz! <3 So nice to hear from you again, love bug! I hope you are well! What are you wearing, by the way?!