Johnny Marr responds to Morrissey's open letter via Twitter (January 26, 2022)

Dear @officialmoz. An ‘open letter’ hasn’t really been a thing since 1953, It’s all ‘social media’ now. Even Donald J Trump had that one down. Also, this fake news business…a bit 2021 yeah ? #makingindiegreatagain

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Related item:

• "OPEN LETTER TO JOHNNY MARR." (January 25, 2022)

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Media item:

• Radio X: Johnny Marr hits back after Morrissey asks him to stop mentioning him in interviews - January 26, 2022

 

[Mr. Mustache]

I'm of two minds. I love Marr's work but he does seem to take every opportunity to slag Moz, and he leans into the "lads / gang" attitude as a posture.

On the flipside, Moz's current Covid-denial politics and flirtation with the right is somewhat ripe for ridicule.

They're both what I'd expect them to be: self-involved but super interesting artistically. Moz's solo work is far superior to Marr's solo efforts, but Marr's band is actually better at capturing the essence of The Smiths live, and Marr's voice is much improved. Marr's strongest work since Smiths has still been as an ace sideman to The The, Electronic, Modest Mouse etc. His lyrics... are lacking.

 

[Sister I'm a Poet]

By mentioning Trump and "fake news", he is linking Moz to the alt-right without saying it directly.

 

[Phranc & Open]

By mentioning Trump and "fake news", he is linking Moz to the alt-right without saying it directly.

Exactly.

 

[MoneyChangesEverything]

But if Haslam and Marr knew about and/or seen something happening and did nothing, then that would make them complicit by their silence.

You clearly know f*** all about libel law and the burden of proof. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_defamation_law

 

[kissmyshadestoo]

They should each record a version of this and donate proceeds to charity (bonus: Swift is playing a Marr version Jaguar)

 

[MoneyChangesEverything]

Not complicit in Morrissey's hypothetical crime, but are you not breaking some law or other by withholding evidence/knowledge of a crime?

so close, yet so far.

If they had evidence, it wouldn't be libel. They could prove it. And, as anyone with half a brain cell knows, abusers (if that is what happened, and I am doubtful) are very, very careful to remove all the evidence in most cases.

I'm talking generally here - I have no idea if anyone did what is being hinted at, or what it is, and it would be very unwise to state that they did unless there's evidence to prove it. Without evidence and proof, it is nothing.

 

[eugenius]

And this junior response shows why Morrissey is the wordsmith and Johnny does his best work with a guitar. (Stop trying so hard, Johnny.)

 

[bredbasket]

Johnny had such a childish and emotional response compared to Morrissey. Even a neutral third party can see that. f*** Marr.

 

[Mohnny Jarr]

Johnny didn't really say owt nasty in the first place did he? he just said things went to shit and that's what happens. He has also said many a time that they were young, under pressure and inexperienced. They both acknowledge it was aeons ago. Honestly think Moz is a little disappointed that JM's career is on the up and his is struggling due to the things he "never said".

By saying he isn't close to Morrissey doesn't mean that he's slagging him in any way. Maybe M need the love too much and Johnny isn't that kind of fella.

 

[Anthony12]

Johnny ha avuto una risposta così infantile ed emotiva rispetto a Morrissey. Anche una terza parte neutrale può vederlo. cazzo Marr.

LOL, what?

 

[Multi]

so close, yet so far.

If they had evidence, it wouldn't be libel. They could prove it. And, as anyone with half a brain cell knows, abusers (if that is what happened, and I am doubtful) are very, very careful to remove all the evidence in most cases.

I'm talking generally here - I have no idea if anyone did what is being hinted at, or what it is, and it would be very unwise to state that they did unless there's evidence to prove it. Without evidence and proof, it is nothing.

if it's anything, it's the long standing rumor that Moz made a move on Marr during the Strangeway sessions and that led to Marr pulling the plug on the band.

 

[Anonymous]

so close, yet so far.

If they had evidence, it wouldn't be libel. They could prove it. And, as anyone with half a brain cell knows, abusers (if that is what happened, and I am doubtful) are very, very careful to remove all the evidence in most cases.

I'm talking generally here - I have no idea if anyone did what is being hinted at, or what it is, and it would be very unwise to state that they did unless there's evidence to prove it. Without evidence and proof, it is nothing.

I'm not really following your argument here. You seem to be over-complicating the Haslam gossip by getting bogged down in whether or not it would be libel.

The point that's being made is that if Haslam and Marr had actual evidence of Morrissey having done something illegal, yet had just sat on that evidence and done nothing, then whilst not being complicit in Morrissey's hypothetical crime, they would surely be complicit in withholding evidence of/knowledge of a crime. Isn't that a crime in itself.

And if they have no such evidence ( as seems more likely to be the case) then Haslam is, of course, talking out of his arse, and obviously isn't going to elaborate on his hints, because he'd have no evidence to back up his claims - which would, of course, be libel.

So I don't really see anything complex about this.

 

[Hovis]

Haslam is a maestro with the wooden spoon.

 

[AKA Foster88]

if it's anything, it's the long standing rumor that Moz made a move on Marr during the Strangeway sessions and that led to Marr pulling the plug on the band.

I've not heard that rumour before but even if true it would hardly destroy Moz would it? He's already destroyed in essence.

It's all very 2022 isn't it. Back and forth on the tippy tappy rather than actually airing each others grievances to each other in person.....or at least on the phone.

Does Moz still have phone friends?

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Haslam is a maestro with the wooden spoon.

yeah, stirring up shit.

 

[AKA Foster88]

By mentioning Trump and "fake news", he is linking Moz to the alt-right without saying it directly.

It wasn't that long ago that Moz had the secret service at his door over his 'killing Trump would be a good thing' (paraphrasing, can't remember the exact quote) comments in an interview.

Marr missed that one. He misses plenty mind you.

 

[MoneyChangesEverything]

I'm not really following your argument here. You seem to be over-complicating the Haslam gossip by getting bogged down in whether or not it would be libel.

The point that's being made is that if Haslam and Marr had actual evidence of Morrissey having done something illegal, yet had just sat on that evidence and done nothing, then whilst not being complicit in Morrissey's hypothetical crime, they would surely be complicit in withholding evidence of/knowledge of a crime. Isn't that a crime in itself.

And if they have no such evidence ( as seems more likely to be the case) then Haslam is, of course, talking out of his arse, and obviously isn't going to elaborate on his hints, because he'd have no evidence to back up his claims - which would, of course, be libel.

So I don't really see anything complex about this.

If it's not true, it's libel.

If it's true, but there's no evidence, it can't be proven. It doesn't mean someone's "Talking out of their arse".

This isn't tricky. If you're going to state big things that could hurt someone's reputation, you really do need proof. Without proof, the rich with the power to libel the life out of the not-rich will always triumph.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/op...adwalladr-shows-how-weak-uk-press-freedom-is/ demonstrates the kind of laws at play here. Money changes everything.

 

[Hovis]

yeah, stirring up shit.

This is the third intervention, over the past five years or so, that says absolutely nothing with an optimal, negative, effect.

 

[Anonymous]

If it's not true, it's libel.

If it's true, but there's no evidence, it can't be proven. It doesn't mean someone's "Talking out of their arse".

This isn't tricky. If you're going to state big things that could hurt someone's reputation, you really do need proof. Without proof, the rich with the power to libel the life out of the not-rich will always triumph.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/op...adwalladr-shows-how-weak-uk-press-freedom-is/ demonstrates the kind of laws at play here. Money changes everything.

Jeezus, what are you going on about? You keep making this really obvious point over and over again - that claims of criminal actions not backed up by evidence can be libel - and as far as I'm aware, nobody has argued against this or suggested otherwise. I don't know who you think you're having a debate with.

If there's no evidence, then of course it means Haslam's talking out if his arse - because he's claiming he could ruin Morrissey's career with a few tweets, whilst in fact the opposite would be true: if he doesn't have evidence, Morrissey would sue him for slander and Haslam's career would be over.

You say you're a lawyer? Christ, I'm glad you're not mine!

 

[Anonymous]

I've not heard that rumour before

Me neither, and I've been a Smiths/Morrissey fan for 35 years. Isn't that odd? It's almost as if someone just decided to make it up on the spot, post it on the internet, and claim it's a 'long-standing rumour'!