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[The Truth]

[QUOTE="The Truth, post: 1987159826, member: 28881 Do I know that different ethnicities have different inherent potentials to develop intelligence? No, I don't know that and neither does anyone else.

And you base this rather sweeping statement on what? The likes of Doctor Murray who have devoted tears of study on the subject are deemed wrong with a few taps of your keyboard, LOL. Impressive that you can dismantle such a major work so easily [/QUOTE]
I base it on logic.
You find problems with what I wrote but you're okay with GodEmperorMorrissey?
I think that is the real issue.
Basic logic will tell you that no one knows the answer to that question. We do not know what the results would be if the tests were impartial because we do not live in an impartial world.
Are you saying that people of different ethnicities will always score differently on standardized tests?
I'm basing it on logic.
I don't know. You don't know. It's impossible to know.
I've been very fair and even introduced things into the discussion that helped your side.
At some point a couple of pages ago you thought you had a good point with "Yes or no, do you believe intelligence can be linked to ethnicity." I wrote two long posts in response and you called one word salad and then dismissed the other one summing it up as "you don't know?"

No. I'm not here to claim to know things. I'm not the one making assertions and I'm not responsible for the fact that you don't want to respond to the points I made. You could ask for clarification or pick out one part and discuss that but you choose to dismiss it. That's not my fault or my problem.
And God EmperorMorrissey has already had a couple of meltdowns, called inconvenient posts "off topic" and then started talking about how black people had it better in the 50's. You seem okay with all that.

Do you understand that the person that makes the assertion is the one that has to provide an argument? The one that has to prove their statement? We saw that you agreed with him but when I responded to your post you said that you wrote it in thirty seconds and that I got the gist of what you meant.
I think I do get the gist.
And you're more intelligent than GodEmperorMorrissey, more rational, and have the ability to sound more reasoned. But you're no more interested in having a real exchange of ideas. That's normal and I'm not trying to make any personal remarks. The reason I talked about the things we're taught in school is because I know that you live in a racist country, same as I do, and I was trying to talk about the differences between what we've been taught historically as children in schools and what we might have learned later, about the very reason these culturally based intelligence tests exist.
This is all rehash now but the point is, if I wanted to be dishonest and play word games I think I would be capable of doing that. I don't feel I need to. I'm really trying to have a discussion and not win an argument. But this whole thing went down the tubes a couple of pages back and it's just too obvious that you're being dishonest here in pretending you care about the facts when I am the one you have an issue with.
You would be a good speaker for the people who are really racist and can't say what they want to so cleverly. That's why you like those alt-right guys. They know how to appeal to the real cross burners but they're clever about how they say it. You could do that. And if we debated in front of a group like that you could even win by pointing to a book and saying "I suppose you know more than _____" whoever, but the statement I made was logical. I stand by it. We can not say the potential intelligence of any ethnic group, because potential is something that remains to be seen. A billion studies about the way different groups measure on tests now will not tell us what the future could be like, and any ideas about why those groups measure as they do can only ever be theories because they are statistical and you can always sift the numbers a different way by considering different factors.

 

[The Truth]

EVERYTHING IS UNDER CONTROL by Robert Anton Wilson

 

[GodEmperorMorrissey]

And you base this rather sweeping statement on what? The likes of Doctor Murray who have devoted tears of study on the subject are deemed wrong with a few taps of your keyboard, LOL. Impressive that you can dismantle such a major work so easily

I base it on logic.
You find problems with what I wrote but you're okay with GodEmperorMorrissey?
I think that is the real issue.
Basic logic will tell you that no one knows the answer to that question. We do not know what the results would be if the tests were impartial because we do not live in an impartial world.
Are you saying that people of different ethnicities will always score differently on standardized tests?
I'm basing it on logic.
I don't know. You don't know. It's impossible to know.
I've been very fair and even introduced things into the discussion that helped your side.
At some point a couple of pages ago you thought you had a good point with "Yes or no, do you believe intelligence can be linked to ethnicity." I wrote two long posts in response and you called one word salad and then dismissed the other one summing it up as "you don't know?"

No. I'm not here to claim to know things. I'm not the one making assertions and I'm not responsible for the fact that you don't want to respond to the points I made. You could ask for clarification or pick out one part and discuss that but you choose to dismiss it. That's not my fault or my problem.
And God EmperorMorrissey has already had a couple of meltdowns, called inconvenient posts "off topic" and then started talking about how black people had it better in the 50's. You seem okay with all that.

Do you understand that the person that makes the assertion is the one that has to provide an argument? The one that has to prove their statement? We saw that you agreed with him but when I responded to your post you said that you wrote it in thirty seconds and that I got the gist of what you meant.
I think I do get the gist.
And you're more intelligent than GodEmperorMorrissey, more rational, and have the ability to sound more reasoned. But you're no more interested in having a real exchange of ideas. That's normal and I'm not trying to make any personal remarks. The reason I talked about the things we're taught in school is because I know that you live in a racist country, same as I do, and I was trying to talk about the differences between what we've been taught historically as children in schools and what we might have learned later, about the very reason these culturally based intelligence tests exist.
This is all rehash now but the point is, if I wanted to be dishonest and play word games I think I would be capable of doing that. I don't feel I need to. I'm really trying to have a discussion and not win an argument. But this whole thing went down the tubes a couple of pages back and it's just too obvious that you're being dishonest here in pretending you care about the facts when I am the one you have an issue with.
You would be a good speaker for the people who are really racist and can't say what they want to so cleverly. That's why you like those alt-right guys. They know how to appeal to the real cross burners but they're clever about how they say it. You could do that. And if we debated in front of a group like that you could even win by pointing to a book and saying "I suppose you know more than _____" whoever, but the statement I made was logical. I stand by it. We can not say the potential intelligence of any ethnic group, because potential is something that remains to be seen. A billion studies about the way different groups measure on tests now will not tell us what the future could be like, and any ideas about why those groups measure as they do can only ever be theories because they are statistical and you can always sift the numbers a different way by considering different factors.[/QUOTE]

This whole rant is nothing but word games. Maybe you live in a racist country, i don't regardless of how much the jews try to promote division. You failed to address any point i made and respond with convoluted nonsense, conflating peoples arguments and straw manning

 

[The Truth]

This whole rant is nothing but word games. Maybe you live in a racist country, i don't regardless of how much the jews try to promote division. You failed to address any point i made and respond with convoluted nonsense, conflating peoples arguments and straw manning

You made the statement that different races exist for a reason and I asked you what the reason is.
You still haven't answered that but I'm tired of helping you have a platform.

 

[vegan cro spirit 222]

WTF????!!!!!!!!!

SOCK PUPPET LOGIC????

INSANE SKINNY LOGICAL???


I thought that twat derrida had been put out of his misery.

every insane sock puppet parrot has 160 IQ

 

[bhops]

I base it on logic.
You find problems with what I wrote but you're okay with GodEmperorMorrissey?
I think that is the real issue.
Basic logic will tell you that no one knows the answer to that question. We do not know what the results would be if the tests were impartial because we do not live in an impartial world.
Are you saying that people of different ethnicities will always score differently on standardized tests?
I'm basing it on logic.
I don't know. You don't know. It's impossible to know.
I've been very fair and even introduced things into the discussion that helped your side.
At some point a couple of pages ago you thought you had a good point with "Yes or no, do you believe intelligence can be linked to ethnicity." I wrote two long posts in response and you called one word salad and then dismissed the other one summing it up as "you don't know?"

No. I'm not here to claim to know things. I'm not the one making assertions and I'm not responsible for the fact that you don't want to respond to the points I made. You could ask for clarification or pick out one part and discuss that but you choose to dismiss it. That's not my fault or my problem.
And God EmperorMorrissey has already had a couple of meltdowns, called inconvenient posts "off topic" and then started talking about how black people had it better in the 50's. You seem okay with all that.

Do you understand that the person that makes the assertion is the one that has to provide an argument? The one that has to prove their statement? We saw that you agreed with him but when I responded to your post you said that you wrote it in thirty seconds and that I got the gist of what you meant.
I think I do get the gist.
And you're more intelligent than GodEmperorMorrissey, more rational, and have the ability to sound more reasoned. But you're no more interested in having a real exchange of ideas. That's normal and I'm not trying to make any personal remarks. The reason I talked about the things we're taught in school is because I know that you live in a racist country, same as I do, and I was trying to talk about the differences between what we've been taught historically as children in schools and what we might have learned later, about the very reason these culturally based intelligence tests exist.
This is all rehash now but the point is, if I wanted to be dishonest and play word games I think I would be capable of doing that. I don't feel I need to. I'm really trying to have a discussion and not win an argument. But this whole thing went down the tubes a couple of pages back and it's just too obvious that you're being dishonest here in pretending you care about the facts when I am the one you have an issue with.
You would be a good speaker for the people who are really racist and can't say what they want to so cleverly. That's why you like those alt-right guys. They know how to appeal to the real cross burners but they're clever about how they say it. You could do that. And if we debated in front of a group like that you could even win by pointing to a book and saying "I suppose you know more than _____" whoever, but the statement I made was logical. I stand by it. We can not say the potential intelligence of any ethnic group, because potential is something that remains to be seen. A billion studies about the way different groups measure on tests now will not tell us what the future could be like, and any ideas about why those groups measure as they do can only ever be theories because they are statistical and you can always sift the numbers a different way by considering different factors.[/QUOTE]


What has GodEmperorMorrissey got to do with our back and forth? Shall we go thru each and every comment on this thread and ask each other if we agree/disagree with it? Your beef with GodEmperorMorrissey is yours alone, I feel no need to get in the middle of it either way.

'Basic logic will tell you that no one knows the answer to that question.' How so? What do you base that on? Are you saying it is impossible to measure IQ's between different ethnicities? Are you saying it is impossible to measure IQ's between individuals? Oh in that case can I go around saying 'I'm as intelligent or have the same IQ as Stephen Hawking, but just in a different way?' I don't find it implausible in the least and neither do many scientists either, yet according to you 'basic logic' tells us differently yet you offer no real empirical evidence to back up that assertion.

The reason I haven't offered a more detailed response is because I thought TurBornus The Sikh wrote a couple of really good coherent posts on the subject and pretty much covered my thoughts on the subject so any response from me would only be a doubling up of those posts and probably not as eloquent, hence I directed you to their posts and said I'd be interested in a detailed response of which you interestingly really haven't provided. And yeah, i did find what you wrote to be a word salad with plenty of opinion but not much fact attached to it. My summation of you saying you 'don't know' you actually agreed with, so I kinda felt that it was a pretty good succinct summation? LOL.

'And you're more intelligent than GodEmperorMorrissey, more rational, and have the ability to sound more reasoned. But you're no more interested in having a real exchange of ideas. That's normal and I'm not trying to make any personal remarks. ' See this is where I asked if you'd ever done formal debating before as your framing of me here is very sneaky indeed. You claim not to be making personal remarks yet only a few lines later you say, 'That's why you like those alt-right guys. They know how to appeal to the real cross burners but they're clever about how they say it.' Who are these alt-right guys I like? The only person who could possibly be linked to the alt-right that I've ever quoited here is Milo and he disavowed the alt-right back in 2017 as what was formally a fun trolly movement hijacked by white nationalist thickos like Richard Spencer. I tend to agree. So who else are you talking about that I've quoted here on these boards? Ben Shapiro? Jordan Peterson? Jimmy Dore?

I will offer an olive branch of sorts and have been meaning to post this up today because I felt it was valid point and that was your remarks around education. I tend to agree and this is where acknowledging differences in IQ would really help. Here in NZ we have many kids coming out of school feeling 'dumb' because they failed at school. Many of these kids are Maori and Polynesian kids and as I'm sure you'd agree low esteem at school can be something that follows you around a lifetime. Now am I saying that there aren't some kids from these ethnicities that can thrive in these types of conditions? Of course not, but if we had the guts to admit that certain ethnicities struggle with basic education then maybe we could redesign our education system pathways to account for these kids and offer them a different type of learning/achievement. In doing so we'd be more likely to keep these kids in school and have them leave feeling like they have achieved something and give them a dream to hold onto. But of course if I ever was to say that in public I'd be called racist and and be dismissed. See where as you see measuring IQ as inherently racist I see it as a tool for good, to help improve lives rather than hinder them.

Different breeds of dogs have different IQ's (on the whole) and we as a society have no issues with saying that but apply the same train of thought to humans and we go nuts with indignation.

 

[The Truth]

You're missing out on the meaning of the word "potential," as in future potential.
Studies conducted now can't tell us what human potential will become in the future. and certainly studies conducted in the past are only really valid if you take into consideration the conditions under which they were conducted.
There are so many factors involved in any study of various ethnicities. As we understand how to better facilitate learning and as cultural considerations most other factors are in a state of flux, no one can know the potential. I'm just talking about my own statement.

Some of the rest of this is interesting. Your olive branch is interesting. I think if you don't understand the implications of lowering expectations for different ethnicities, and in effecting endorsing institutionalized racism, we're not going to agree on what to do with what I imagine is considered "the Maori problem." Gosh, these kids are from a marginalized culture that was nearly destroyed and they're being taught in the schools of the oppressor. They feel dumb! Let's teach them that there is pride in excelling at lowered expectations!" Is this how they decide who works in the house and who works in the field?
It's funny that you see this as something I would agree with, but that's because you see all this talk about IQ studies as a slick way for liberals to rig the system, whereas I see these studies as they've historically been used by conservatives.

Dogs aren't humans. Off topic.
The alt-right thing. Off topic. My bad.

On to "why are you talking about GodEmperorMorrissey, the reason this thread exists? Let's talk about that guy who mocked you instead." That guy got his hits in. I didn't read The Bell Curve. I don't know if that is what you're talking about. Maybe you want me to refute that horses aren't zebras. You got me there!
The line about how "we're all little Father Serras" was funny. I marked it funny and kept moving.

So I still say that no study can predict the future potentials of various ethnicities. I think that is basic and logical and it can be argued without citing any books but just using reasoning.
Got it down t two sentences there at that end.

 

[bhops]

You're missing out on the meaning of the word "potential," as in future potential.
Studies conducted now can't tell us what human potential will become in the future. and certainly studies conducted in the past are only really valid if you take into consideration the conditions under which they were conducted.
There are so many factors involved in any study of various ethnicities. As we understand how to better facilitate learning and as cultural considerations most other factors are in a state of flux, no one can know the potential. I'm just talking about my own statement.

Some of the rest of this is interesting. Your olive branch is interesting. I think if you don't understand the implications of lowering expectations for different ethnicities, and in effecting endorsing institutionalized racism, we're not going to agree on what to do with what I imagine is considered "the Maori problem." Gosh, these kids are from a marginalized culture that was nearly destroyed and they're being taught in the schools of the oppressor. They feel dumb! Let's teach them that there is pride in excelling at lowered expectations!" Is this how they decide who works in the house and who works in the field?
It's funny that you see this as something I would agree with, but that's because you see all this talk about IQ studies as a slick way for liberals to rig the system, whereas I see these studies as they've historically been used by conservatives.

Dogs aren't humans. Off topic.
The alt-right thing. Off topic. My bad.

On to "why are you talking about GodEmperorMorrissey, the reason this thread exists? Let's talk about that guy who mocked you instead." That guy got his hits in. I didn't read The Bell Curve. I don't know if that is what you're talking about. Maybe you want me to refute that horses aren't zebras. You got me there!
The line about how "we're all little Father Serras" was funny. I marked it funny and kept moving.

So I still say that no study can predict the future potentials of various ethnicities. I think that is basic and logical and it can be argued without citing any books but just using reasoning.
Got it down t two sentences there at that end.

If you think I am correlating changing a way someone learns with 'lowering expectation's and that this automatically assumes that I am gearing them up to 'work in the field' then you're right we really aren't going to agree on anything. I find that insulting, really really insulting, but hey it's the internet you don't know me and I don't know you, but your supposition that this is what I meant I think highlights your own bias in this conversation not mine.

It's a bit like dyslexia, still a fairly recent diagnosis for many. For some years kids thought they were dumb because they couldn't read, now if someone suffers from dyslexia there is a diagnosis and tools that sit in behind the diagnosis to help someone achieve their full potential. I was kinda going down that same avenue but sorry for the first time in this conversation you acted like a real prick.

Acknowledging that you may have to change the way someone learns in order for them to achieve their goals does not equate to 'lowering expectations.' far from it, I am advocating a change in the system for those struggling because currently the system they exist in is not working for a large percentage of them. Two years ago we tried charter schools in areas of NZ with large Maori/Pasifika population using teaching methods that sit outside the traditional methods. many kids went to these schools that were failing in the current system, some had even already left school and guess what? Out of the 12 schools 11 of them blasted past their KPI's and the kids really flourished, grades went up, truancy way down all sorts of incredible benefits. Is this 'lowering expectations?' f*** off. Unfortunately a Labour govt came into power and because the schools weren't union sanctioned they were shut down and a real opportunity for change was missed. Oh and NONE of the kids I saw interviewed felt 'dumb' for trying a charter school, quite the reverse, they felt their confidence come back, they had their dreams and aspirations. Rather a good result I'd say.

 

[The Truth]

Sorry you got upset but you were also comparing ethnicities to different breeds of dog, so I got confused.
You were the one who said they felt dumb before they went to these schools. The schools sound great except that they sound segregated. Maybe different unspecified teaching methods are more effective with certain ethnicities but maybe we should work on evaluation of all students as individuals to see which teaching methods are most effective for them.
It's complicated because I don't think it's healthy for groups to be so segregated but we also have to consider the value of keeping various cultures alive.
But what happens to cultures especially now with the Internet having to potential to create a world culture? We always seem to want immigrants to assimilate and native peoples are usually forced to change their religion, learn a new language, and so on. And then when there aren't very many left they are treated like a novelty, at least in the US. Cultural appropriation in fashion and entertainment is very popular.
Probably some kind of conspiracy.

 

[vegan cro spirit 222]

there you go, perfect example of skinny sock puppet parrot logic: immigrants who flock to the UK are
"forced" to learn English. When sockpuppet logic tells that the UK should give up English and adopt the Islamic twat
language.
Seeing they are doing the UK a favor by coming here and starting up their clusterflock.

Yes i rate that as 160 IQ Skinny sock puppet logic.

 

[reelfountain]

Can anybody answer these simple questions (though I very much doubt it) ...

Why does Israel not want any blacks on its soil?

They tell us through the endless Western pressure groups they fund how Diversity is Strength but do not like to practice what they preach. Why is this?

Why are you not allowed to apply any criticism whatsoever to Jews or Zionism without blood-curdling shrieks of Anti-Semitism (which is a misnomer as 90% are converts that originate from south Russia and have no claim on 'Israel' at all and are complicitly guilty of the ethnic cleansing and murder of thousands of Arabs).

How come I can say freely that Jesus never existed and Christians are deluded; I can deny the Bengal famine or even say Stalin was innocent of genocide and it's all made up, yet if I make one critical enquiry about a single detail of the Holocaust I will be thrown in prison for up to 10 years in most of Europe and Canada?

If everything happened as they say it did what's the problem, why the unique legislating of history and paranoid bully-boy authoritarianism?

If I wasn't stupid I might actually think that Israel is basing its ideas of racial purity, blood and soil on the Third Reich itself!

As nobody has replied to my questions I can only presume that everyone agrees with me on the obvious answer to them.

The answer in sum being that Zionists, powerful Jews, Illuminati, whatever you want to call them - are the most racist, hateful and psychopathic people on earth whose main aim in life is to subvert the West.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

When Israel invaded Ramallah, they took over the tv stations and started playing porn. It is a form of psychological warfare to cloud and corrupt peoples minds into complacency and degeneracy. Makes for good chattel. They have done this through the use of Hollywood/Music/Social media and it has been a consistent issue of subversion that is part reason for them being exiled from 109 countries. Yes, that was one of the reasons Hitler wanted Jews out of Germany. AIPAC controls America. Yes i have already made this case and nobody has refuted it in any thoughtful way besides trolling or using wizadry. Try without claiming racism or the word of the day "anti-semitism"

Hitler wanted Jews out of Germany because Jews were subverting Germany
by spreading porn ?

 

[reelfountain]

Hitler wanted Jews out of Germany because Jews were subverting Germany
by spreading porn ?

@GodEmperor is right. Porn is part of the subversion they use among many other things. Health bodies in America have actually recently confirmed that porno is very bad for your mental health. How many are now addicted to that trash?

He also wanted them out of Germany because they initiated a campaign of killing Nazis in 1936. 'World Jewry' had actually announced its own 'war' on Germany in 1933. An article in The Express on March 24 1933 read 'Judea Announces War on Germany.' So Hitler viewed them as enemies of the state and did a deal with the Zionists to transfer all Germany's Jews to what was soon to become 'Israel'. This deal, as we know, was never fully carried out because of the war etc.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

GodEmperor is right. Porn is part of the subversion they use among many other things. Health bodies in America have actually recently confirmed that porno is very bad for your mental health. How many are now addicted to that trash?

He also wanted them out of Germany because they initiated a campaign of killing Nazis in 1936. 'World Jewry' also announced its own 'war' on Germany in 1933. An article in The Express on March 24 1933 read 'Judea Announces War on Germany.' So Hitler viewed them as enemies of the state and did a deal with the Zionists to transfer all Germany's Jews to 'Israel'. This deal, as we know, was never fully carried out because of the war etc.

ANSWER THE QUESTION....


Hitler wanted Jews out of Germany because Jews were subverting Germany
by spreading porn ?

 

[reelfountain]

ANSWER THE QUESTION....


Hitler wanted Jews out of Germany because Jews were subverting Germany
by spreading porn ?

I just did. Porn was and still is one of their tactics to subvert the West. Did you know that in Communist Russia porn was banned?

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

I just did. Porn was and still is one of their tactics to subvert the West. Did you know that in Communist Russia porn was banned?

ANSWER THE QUESTION....




Hitler wanted Jews out of Germany because Jews were subverting Germany
by spreading porn ?

 

[reelfountain]

ANSWER THE QUESTION....




Hitler wanted Jews out of Germany because Jews were subverting Germany
by spreading porn ?

Technically then, YES!

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Technically then, YES!

Proof ?


THAT...


Hitler wanted Jews out of Germany because Jews were subverting Germany
by spreading porn.

 

[reelfountain]

Proof ?


THAT...


Hitler wanted Jews out of Germany because Jews were subverting Germany
by spreading porn.

You know as well as I do that I could supply you with masses of 'proof' up on here that would be completely disregarded.

Instead I urge you to study the subject long term as I have. Watch documentaries and read books, get as much info as you can from authors of both the left, middle and right and you will soon form your opinion from the 'proof' available.

Use this method and the truth falls into place.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

You know as well as I do that I could supply you with masses of 'proof' up on here that would be completely disregarded.

Instead I urge you to study the subject long term as I have. Watch documentaries and read books, get as much info as you can from authors of both the left, middle and right and you will you soon form your opinion and gather your truth from the 'proof' given.

NO ... YOU HAVE NO PROOF.



So....



Hitler wanted Jews out of Germany because Jews were subverting Germany
by spreading porn ?