David Cameron on Morrissey

Well, why, exactly? I'm sure there are literally tens of millions of John Lennon fans who, at the very least, aren't inclined to join the peace movement ("pro-war" is probably a description few people would apply to themselves). And in Morrissey's case I really don't see any important emotional disconnect. As far as I know, none of his songs are about fox hunting and only one that I can think of (Meat is Murder) is even about vegetarianism. His points of view on these points are well known, but they aren't exactly dominant features of his work.

If you think about his background, where he was raised, his family, his working class values, his social awareness, animal rights, anti royalist, regretting that the Tory cabinet had not died in the Brighton bomb. I'm sure there are more reasons. I'm sure alot of Morrissey fans are from the same social background has him. (I am) Yes he has done well for himself so have alot of his fans but just because you get a good job and a bigger garden does that mean you are not working class anymore? Do forget where you came from? or do you remember the good and bad that helped to make you who you are?

Let me make this clear though, I've never voted Tory and I NEVER will...........this is my discission.

David Cameron is jumping on a bandwagon of what he has been told is credible. He's a Phil Collins fan. I dunno, maybe you can be both.
He has been photographed in his office with a Smiths sleeve (Queen is Dead, I think. Oh, the irony) yet there is NO record player, it's all for show.
 
David Cameron is jumping on a bandwagon of what he has been told is credible. He's a Phil Collins fan. I dunno, maybe you can be both.
He has been photographed in his office with a Smiths sleeve (Queen is Dead, I think. Oh, the irony) yet there is NO record player, it's all for show.

I think that he's playing up the fact that he's a fan of political left-wing music in general for show, but it looks like he really is a fan. BTW, I'm a fan of Phil Collins and Morrissey! ;)
 
Dave Rowntree of Blur has a go at David Cameron

Dave Rowntree, who is standing as a Labour candidate, had this to say about David Cameron, in a Guardian interview today...

Rowntree is amused by any politician who tries to turn music into political capital. He chuckles in particular at David Cameron's professed passion for The Smiths. "He's a Smiths tourist," says the drummer, cheeks creased with a knowing grin. "Real Smiths fans dress a certain kind of way, and they have a certain type of haircut, and they wear certain types of t-shirts. But what they probably don't do is have their picture taken outside the Salford Lads Club"

Errr....

Peter
 
Re: Dave Rowntree of Blur has a go at David Cameron

Dave Rowntree, who is standing as a Labour candidate, had this to say about David Cameron, in a Guardian interview today...

Rowntree is amused by any politician who tries to turn music into political capital. He chuckles in particular at David Cameron's professed passion for The Smiths. "He's a Smiths tourist," says the drummer, cheeks creased with a knowing grin. "Real Smiths fans dress a certain kind of way, and they have a certain type of haircut, and they wear certain types of t-shirts. But what they probably don't do is have their picture taken outside the Salford Lads Club"

Errr....

Peter

Judging by this thread and finally this comment from the erstwhille Blurite 'Rowntree'. Looks like im not allowed to be a Smiths or Morrissey Fan anymore.

Better go away and stick to reading my Private Eye and crank up the Pip Collins while im doing it... Do I need a jacket or is it not required?
 
Re: Dave Rowntree of Blur has a go at David Cameron

"Real Smiths fans dress a certain kind of way, and they have a certain type of haircut, and they wear certain types of t-shirts. But what they probably don't do is have their picture taken outside the Salford Lads Club"

Well, that's that then. Not only is David Cameron definitely not a real Smiths fan but, I now know, neither am I. Damn... :(
 
Re: Dave Rowntree of Blur has a go at David Cameron

Dave Rowntree, who is standing as a Labour candidate, had this to say about David Cameron, in a Guardian interview today...

Rowntree is amused by any politician who tries to turn music into political capital. He chuckles in particular at David Cameron's professed passion for The Smiths. "He's a Smiths tourist," says the drummer, cheeks creased with a knowing grin. "Real Smiths fans dress a certain kind of way, and they have a certain type of haircut, and they wear certain types of t-shirts. But what they probably don't do is have their picture taken outside the Salford Lads Club"

Errr....

Peter

What a moron. Someone should challenge him to test out that proposition on this board. :)

I know or have met a fairly large number of Smiths fans over the years. They don't seem to me to have much of a tribal character when it comes to dress, haircut or T-shirt preferences. And as far as I recall, JM is on record stressing how Smiths fans turned up from all possible walks of life.

cheers
 
Re: Dave Rowntree of Blur has a go at David Cameron

Why not? I would, if I happened to be in the vicinity. I'm sure quite a few others have too.

cheers

A big part of being a Morrissey fan is NOT following the crowd.
 
Right, let's see if I've got this right. Morrissey fans wear certain clothes, sport a particular haircut and wear the same t-shirts, but they don't get their pictures taken in front of the Salford Lads club because that would be to follow the crowd? Who are these crowds at Salford anyway, if there are no actual Morrissey fans among them?

cheers
 
REMEMBER THATCHER PEOPLE ... I BEG you ....

Ok, you can sing that tune all day long but it holds no water.
Remember or look up what Labour stood for between 1979 & 1990 then come back & tell me they still hold any of the same virtues now.

Look at how a Tory Government acted during the miners strike & tell me seriously that if you transplanted the Labour Government of now back to then, they wouldn't act EXACTLY the same way.

Think of the past all you want but the only result is you'll blind yourself from the state we're in NOW.
 
Right, let's see if I've got this right. Morrissey fans wear certain clothes, sport a particular haircut and wear the same t-shirts,

cheers
no,that bit's wrong too
 
Well, that still leaves the second bit. The only kind of crowd with any motive to photograph themselves in front of the Salford Lads Club are Morrissey fans. So, either Morrissey fans go with the (Morrissey) crowd on this one, or there is no crowd, in which case there is no reason why a Morrissey fan, according to your logic, should not have himself photographed in front of the Salford Lads Club. It's an argument that is inherently self-defeating.

And anyway:
A big part of being a Morrissey fan is NOT following the crowd.

Is it? Maybe that's the case for you, but as far as I'm concerned, the long and the short of being a Morrissey fan is to have a strong regard for and attachment to the man's music and lyrics. Anyone who has that has as much right to consider him- or herself a Morrissey fan as anybody else. It's not a way of life, unless you choose for yourself to make it one. Also, "not following the crowd" isn't actually the same thing as "never doing the same thing that the crowd does". Unless you always do the unusual thing as a matter of principle, which is every bit as silly as unthinkingly doing the usual thing.

cheers
 
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Re: Dave Rowntree of Blur has a go at David Cameron

Dave Rowntree, who is standing as a Labour candidate, had this to say about David Cameron, in a Guardian interview today...

Rowntree is amused by any politician who tries to turn music into political capital. He chuckles in particular at David Cameron's professed passion for The Smiths. "He's a Smiths tourist," says the drummer, cheeks creased with a knowing grin. "Real Smiths fans dress a certain kind of way, and they have a certain type of haircut, and they wear certain types of t-shirts. But what they probably don't do is have their picture taken outside the Salford Lads Club"

Errr....

Peter

I think he may mean have their picture taken just to show that they MUST be a real fan. He made the picture taken inside public to cling to some credibity whereas other public figures would keep it private (If it meant so much)

He wasn't allow to have his picture taken outside, thank god. He would be touting it to the world......still
 
Damn, and I was just about to get some work done. ;)



You'd be surprised how many people in America are "pro-war." I feel pretty confident when I say that the man who wrote Imagine (which is sung and quoted at nearly every single peace rally) is anathema to people whose world-view requires extreme aggression, belligerence and a near-complete lack of empathy. Not all Lennon fans are peaceniks, but I'd be willing to bet that there aren't too many extreme nationalists who enjoy Lennon's work.

There's a pretty big chunk of humanity that doesn't fit into either the peacenik or the extreme nationalist category though. The sort of people who might or might not support any particular war for various reasons.

It is true, only Meat is Murder is about vegetarianism but, like Lennon, Morrissey is a singer who stands for something. He may not sing about animal rights all that much, but he is an icon of the movement. Besides, we're not talking about someone who eats meat (plenty of Morrissey fans do that), we are talking about someone who supports blood sports.

He is an icon for the movement, and his vegetarianism no doubt is a very significant and emotionally loaded thing for vegetarians. But they are also largely the only people with strong feelings of any kind about that issue. To most non-vegetarians, the issue of vegetarianism simply isn't emotionally loaded at all, one way or the other.

I agree, it isn't necessary to share an artist's political views to enjoy their work. There is a difference, however, between political differences and moral ones, and I see blood sports as a moral issue.

But again, people who aren't particularly opposed to them almost by definition don't. For most people it's not a difficult divide to bridge, from that direction.

I always think of T.S. Eliot or Ezra Pound in cases like this. Great poets, both, but I always hit an emotional road-block when I think of their anti-Semitic tendencies, especially at the time when they were writing, and especially given their brilliance. Honestly, anyone who uses the word Kike has undermined their ability to appeal to me emotionally. Call me reactionary or simplistic, but I cannot get around that. One should be able to separate the artist from the art, but that is a bridge too far.

Well, there is a limit, I agree with that. Andrej Belyj's Rossija!, with its hysterical panegyric to the brute force of Russian nationalism, is a case in point for me. Which reminds me that I should get around to checking if there's any chance it might have been ironic.

As for philosophy, that is an entirely different matter: I expect all great philosophers to be mad.

:) seconded.

I agree, absolutely. I seek out aesthetic experiences that challenge me, and shake-up any comfort that I may have left. The experience of otherness is essential to being a whole, functioning person. This is how we grow.

However, there are some absolute moral lines that I cannot cross, and animal cruelty is one of them. There are few things I find as reprehensible as the exploitation, torture and killing of animals for sport or financial gain. I have friends who have hunted (although none will admit to hunting now), and these are people I'm fond of. However, I cannot participate in any enjoyment of that pastime, no matter how many times I've willingly listened to their passionate arguments.

Okay, so there might have been a problem for you with an artist who wrote lyrics eulogising fox hunting. But it doesn't neccessarily work the same way in the opposite direction.

Again, this isn't politics, this is morality - two entirely different things.

Perhaps not entirely? :)

Music is the most emotional art form. Literature appeals so strongly to the intellect, and painting and sculpture bridge the divide, but music goes straight to the soul.

If I enjoy a person's music enough, and I bother to learn something about them (which is actually somewhat rare), I'm often pleasantly surprised to find that they are both morally and politically very much in tune (literally, you could say) with my beliefs. This is not to say that I cannot enjoy the work of someone across the political divide, but it just doesn't happen all that often. There is a lack of resonance.

Oh that's because, like most good artists, you're left wing. I'm right wing. To me it happens all the time. :)

So, again, David Cameron is free to enjoy Morrissey as much as he likes, but to me there is an emotional disconnect between advocating for blood sports and being a fan (not just a casual listener) but a fan of someone whose core moral beliefs run counter to his own.

I'm repeating myself now, but I just don't think a non-vegetarian who'd like to see the re-introduction of fox hunting on the grounds of its deep traditional roots in the english countryside would regard these as even essentially moral issues, and much less as core ones.

On a deeper level, you seem to make the argument that the general spirit permeating a distinctive artist's work carries over into the whole and that as such you tend to encounter opposition if you go into it more than superficially, if your own values are fundamentally different? Maybe. It seems a reasonable assumption, though again the appreciation of otherness would tend to counteract it. But David Cameron probably wasn't fully shaped Tory politician of national significance at age 14, or whenever he discovered the Smiths. When you fall in love with music at that age, it's not something that you easily discard just because you happen to grow up to be something that doesn't fit the demographic profile of that music. And after all, there is no shortage of things to continue to love in the Smiths or Morrissey that are completely beyond any politics or the values connected with it.

cheers
 
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